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-   -   A Capella Wars (https://www.musicbanter.com/general-music/81136-capella-wars.html)

Lisnaholic 04-15-2015 03:50 PM

^ Aha! Yes, I have the soundtrack of Oh Brother somewhere around....

I agree, Safe As Milk is the best place to start; his first album, accesible but extraordinary too. It was apparently a personal favourite of John Lennon´s.

After that you might like to jump forward to Clear Spot and The Spotlight Kid, Pet_Sounds. They are solid albums that are easier to get into than TMR, which does require some dedication although it is undoubtedly his masterpiece. I´d be curious to know how you get on, so please keep us posted, ok?

ribbons 04-15-2015 04:05 PM

Nice Safe As Milk trivia you noted there, Lisnaholic -- Lennon was a SAM fan (see photo in which John has two of the SAM bumper stickers on a cabinet in his Weybridge home) and so was George Harrison (see sticker behind George on the door of his Esher bungalow).

http://www.beefheart.com/wp-content/.../lennonsam.jpg
http://www.beefheart.com/wp-content/...12/06/157.jpeg

Lisnaholic 04-15-2015 04:47 PM

lol ! Where did you find two such obscure but right on the nail photos ?? That´s extraordinary! I see that JL is reading the international times. Back in the day that was the hippie newspaper in the UK !

DwnWthVwls 04-15-2015 06:15 PM

I wanna go again if we are doing another round :D

Frownland 04-15-2015 06:36 PM

You're in the lineup to go again, you can find it in the OP. I'm moving ribbons to the top of the list since she says she has a battle picked out.

ribbons 04-15-2015 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1577306)
lol ! Where did you find two such obscure but right on the nail photos ?? That´s extraordinary! I see that JL is reading the international times. Back in the day that was the hippie newspaper in the UK !

I found both photos on the Beefheart site right here: Safe As Milk discography » Captain Beefheart Radar Station I've seen variations of that photo of George at his bungalow door on different Beatles blogs. The first time I saw that pic of John in his sun room was in Nicholas Schaffner’s book The Beatles Forever. I recall first reading about the International Times in that book. By the way, Lisna (although you may already know this), the IT was brought back as a web site a few years ago: IT | International Times I wouldn’t have minded being a UK hippie in the ‘60s! :)

ribbons 04-15-2015 07:21 PM

[deleted]

Frownland 04-15-2015 10:04 PM

Let's keep the current battle going for a few more days before we move on.

ribbons 04-15-2015 10:39 PM

My apologies for misunderstanding. The current score is:

Quote:

Ralph Stanley - 1
Son House - 4
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1575493)




DwnWthVwls 04-17-2015 07:43 AM

I'm the only one for Ralph... if you put the lyrical content aside you guys still like Son House better? His voice is pretty abrasive to me.

DwnWthVwls 04-21-2015 05:05 PM

It's been 5 days slacker.

Frownland 04-21-2015 05:07 PM

Sorry man.

I vote for Stanley. The Son House song is great and has emotion, but I get straight chills whenever I hear O Death.

Ralph Stanley - 2
Son House - 4

Trollheart 04-21-2015 05:12 PM

You wanna call this man. People are losing inter --- um, what was I saying...?

Lisnaholic 04-22-2015 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1579840)
You wanna call this man. People are losing inter --- um, what was I saying...?

^ :laughing: Yes, I quite agree !

High Times ribbons posted her contenders again, I think.
(Thanks for the International Times link, ribbons; it never occurred to me that they´d have a website - using the same old girl-with-headband logo as always, I was amused to see.)

Frownland 04-22-2015 07:28 PM

ribbons actually wanted to be removed from the list because she won't have access to the Internet for a while. So you're up, Lisna.

Trollheart 04-22-2015 07:37 PM

Lis-na-hol-ic! Lis-na-hol-ic! :tramp:

DwnWthVwls 04-23-2015 04:13 PM

Why are you jumping on him... he didn't do anything to you.

Trollheart 04-23-2015 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1580626)
Why are you jumping on him... he didn't do anything to you.

I'm an excitable person. I'm chanting and jumping in the air. D'uh! :)

Lisnaholic 04-23-2015 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1580274)
Lis-na-hol-ic! Lis-na-hol-ic! :tramp:

^ :laughing: Thanks Trollheart ! I hope the following doesn´t take the bounce out of your trampoline. In fact, I´d like to say how much I´m enjoying this thread and the way it encourages us to explore the world of a capella together; I´ve also been interested see how a capella favours some genres over others.

Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a clear historical progression as well ? Songs have moved steadily from the sacred to the profane; from Gregorian chant, through gospel, barbershop, blues and pop to rap. But a capella also features strongly in traditional English folk music, and as we haven´t seen examples from that genre yet, that´s where my selections come:-


Spoiler for for lyrics:

Well met, well met, my friend, all on the highway riding,
Though freely together here we stand.
I pray do tell to me of what calling this shall be
And art thou not a servingman?

Oh no, my brother dear, what makes you to inquire
Of any such thing from my hand?
Indeed I will not feign but I will tell you plain:
I am a downright husbandman.

Well, if a husbandman you be, will go walk with me,
Though freely together here we stand.
For in a very short space I may take you to a place
Where you may he a servingman.

Now still I'm diligence, I give thee many thanks,
But naught do I require from thine hand.
But I pray now to me show wherefor that I may know
The pleasures of a servingman.

Well, isn't it a nice thing to ride out with a king,
With lords, dukes or any such men;
For to hear the horn to blow and see the hounds all in a row,
That's pleasures of a servingman.

But my pleasure's more than that, to see my oxen fat
And a good stock of hay by them stand;
With my plowing and my sowing, my reaping and my mowing,
That's pleasures of an husbandman.

But then we do wear the finest of grandure,
My coat is trim with fur all around;
Our shirts are white as milk and my stockings made of silk:
That's clothing for a servingman.

As to thy grandure give I the coat I wear
Some bushes to ramble among;
Give to me a good greatcoat and in my purse a grout,
That's clothing for an husbandman.

But then we do eat the most delicate fine meat
Of goose, and of capon, and of swan;
Our pastry's made so fine, we drink sugar in our wine,
That's diet for a servingman.

While you eat ducks and capons, give I my beans and bacon,
And a good drop of ale now and then;
For in a farmer's house you will find both brawn and souse,
That's a living for an husbandman.

Kind sir, I must confess although it causes me distress
To grant to you the uppermost hand;
Although it is most painful, it is altogether gainful
And I wish I'd been a husbandman.

So now, good people all, both be you great and small,
All know the king of our land;
And let us, whatsoever, to do our best endeavor,
For to maintain an husbandman.

Spoiler for back story:
In the 60s folk revival, lots of bands took folk songs and turned them into pop or rock. Young Tradition condemned themselves to obscurity by their purist approach – letting folk music sound like folk music. This song is a lively dialogue between a soldier and a farmer , which seems to date back to Shakespeare´s day and is dripping with delicious anachronisms:-
Quote:

The Husbandman and the Servingman is part of the medieval mummers play The Seven Champions of Christendom from Symondsbury near Bridport, Dorset, and is a heated discussion about the merits or otherwise of being employed or independent. In Shakespeare's time most English villages had their local amateur acting companies, who on Christmas or Plough Monday performed traditional dramas in the streets or the halls of great houses. This custom has now almost died out. Peter Kennedy recorded on Christmas 1951 in Symondsbury a fragment of revived but genuine version of this play which has been included in the Alan Lomax Collection CD World Library of Folk and Primitive Music: England.
Peter Bellamy starring as the servingman (employed soldier) and Royston Wood as the husbandman (farmer) sang alternate verses of The Husbandman and the Servingman on The Young Tradition's last LP, Galleries.

VS.


Spoiler for lyrics:

Some old salty, how he used to rock me.
Jelly roll or Jerry Lee, how he used to rock me.
Salt fare. North Sea.
Weird stare, further than the eye can see.
He had a head like a toy shop.
Bow legged stance off, must have been the rolling sea.
Hull Fair waltzers, bopping to Brenda Lee.
River boat jazz cruise, jiving to the Two-Nineteen.
Down there for dancing, come on Mr Chester please.
Play “Deliah's gone” for one more round, some old Salty's on his feet.

Spoiler for back story:
In the same era, The Waterson family were probably the best-known group on the purists' folk club circuit, but the song I´ve chosen is deceptive; sounds like an old sea shanty, but was written, perhaps as recently as 1996 by Lal Waterson, youngest member of the Waterson clan. To keep things in the family, she sings it with her son, Oliver.

One of the song's rather criptic references is to "the two nineteen". This was the name of a UK skiffle group, active in the 1950s, who usually wrote their name, "The 2.19"

Plankton 04-24-2015 07:34 AM

Love the additional references you use Lisna. It does tie things together nicely. I'll have to go with Some Old Salty. Better melody, and harmonies in that. Plus, I lived in unit 219 when I was a young one, so it spoke to me somewhat intimately.

S.O.S. - 1
The S. and the H. - 0

Lisnaholic 04-26-2015 06:29 AM

^ Thanks, Plankton ! I guess I can' t shrug off the habit they teach you at school to categorize, classify and summarize everything!

Yes, I also like Some Old Salty - I like the unexpectedness of the lyrics, and the naturalness of their rhythm too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plankton (Post 1580795)
... I lived in unit 219 when I was a young one, so it spoke to me somewhat intimately.

S.O.S. - 1
The S. and the H. - 0

That' s quite a coincidence! I wonder if you were ever jivving to skiffle music in unit 219 !? You could write your own version of Some Old Salty...

Pet_Sounds 04-26-2015 08:18 PM

The H. and the S. - 1
S.O.S. - 1

I loved both--great selections, Lisna. Had it been another day, my vote might have gone the other way, but as it is, The Husbandman and the Servingman's lyrics gave it a very slight edge.

DwnWthVwls 04-27-2015 06:29 AM

Something about the first one just grabs me more. I like the parts where they sing alone the best.

The S. and the H. - 2
S.O.S. - 1

ribbons 04-29-2015 02:37 PM

Lisna, two excellent a cappella posted by you here - and both of them so different, which made it difficult to choose. I kept mulling (Hull-ing? ;)) over the backstories you posted, which were very helpful especially in the case of Some Old Salty because I was surprised to learn it is a fairly contemporary song. I also like the more compact song structure of Salty and its charming lyrics (with references perhaps to Hull trawlermen with their yellow hats: "Salt fare, North Sea. Weird stare, further than the eye can see. He had a head like a toy shop, bow legged stance off. Must have been the rolling sea."

The S. and the H. - 2
S.O.S. - 2

Lisnaholic 04-29-2015 05:08 PM

Hey, I'm very pleased that you guys are enjoying the Young Tradition and Lal Waterson songs; that was my hope all along. For me as well, surprise surprise, both are great demonstrations of how effective a capella can be.

Welcome back, ribbons ! Those lines you quote, are a very neat, very succinct description, aren't they? But on balance, I go with Dwnwthvwls and Pet_Sounds and vote for the Young Tradition - the two voices are so distinct but each does a wonderful job of breathing life into those old words; I even love the way they drop the "h" on "usbandman."

In fact, at age 18, by chance, I picked up "The YT Sampler" album below and fell in love with them when I heard this track - one of those rare moments when you are just blown away by a piece of music:-



The votes so far:-

The S and the H : 3
S.O.S. : 2

ribbons 04-29-2015 10:16 PM

Lisna, thanks for the welcome back (I was away due to my mother’s surgery, and am glad to report she is recovering well). Thank you as well for introducing me to these artists, neither of which I had heard before. I’m very intrigued by The Young Tradition now. And I really like “Byker Hill” with its three part harmonies and monolithic aura punctuated by that occasional drum – which seem to suit its theme as a coal miner’s rights song. I listened to a number of YT songs tonight and will likely purchase one of their CDs soon. Thanks to you, my earworm at present is “Chicken on a Raft”! :)

Lisnaholic 05-01-2015 05:06 AM

That's good that your mother is recovering, ribbons. I know that when our parents have an operation, it can be as worrying for the children as for the parent, so I hope everything continues well for your mum.

Chicken on a Raft! Haha! Welcome to the world of Young Tradition! That' s a great track, though I never really worked out what it' s about. I'm really pleased that you like Byker Hill, which you describe so well. Apparently Peter Bellamy would sometimes use a long broomhandle with bells attached, which he would bang on the stage floor when YT played live - so maybe that' s what we're hearing on Byker Hill. Whatever it is, it really adds a sombre touch to the song.

Strange to say, I could never convince any of my friends to like YT, so your interest makes me especially happy. Rather unexpectedly, after waiting forty years I can finally share my enthusiasm. Thank you, MB, and thank you, ribbons ! :)

Trollheart 05-01-2015 05:20 AM

I must admit, I've been letting this slip (the odd other thing to do, y'know?) ;) but I want to get in before this closes.

Have to say I really didn't like the first song at all (too many singers, switching it around, up and down?) but really enjoyed the second, which seemed to me to have a sort of African chant about it (would give an example but I think I'll use it in my next battle) plus the sea shanty idea worked too. Great harmonies, very smooth. Definitely give my vote to that.

The S and the H: 3
SOS: 3

ribbons 05-03-2015 05:01 PM

Lisna, thank you for your understanding and kind wishes for my mother. She continues to get stronger and is doing very well.

On a lighter note, “Hi ho, chicken on a raft, hey ho, chicken on a raaaffffftttt!” Still ringing my ears! :laughing: I don’t understand what the song is about either – perhaps a nautical dictionary would help – but I’ve read that “chicken on a raft” is slang for fried egg on fried bread. Did a seaman’s fried egg on fried bread get overly mushly or spoiled at sea, I wonder? And why on a Monday? So many questions to ponder while thinking of chickens on rafts. :)

That’s a great anecdote about Peter Bellamy using a broomhandle with bells attached during performances of “Byker Hill”. That could well be what we hear on the studio recording. Gives the song a fitting “sombre” touch as you stated, and gives me a bit of a start each time I hear it.

I’ve ordered a double CD of Young Tradition/So Cheerfully Round/Galleries/Chicken On a Raft (EP). A bargain! Thank you again for sharing your enthusiasm for YT, a group I for one didn’t even know about before. Looks like I have a treasure trove of listening in store.

And so, with Trollheart’s vote we now have a tie with 3 points each for The S. and the H. and S.O.S.

Frownland 05-03-2015 05:12 PM

Really loved the vocal style of the Servingmen track. The other track was good, but I felt a lot more passion in the first one so I'll go with that.

The S and the H: 4
SOS: 3

Also, would you like to be put back on the list ribbons?

ribbons 05-03-2015 05:16 PM

Sure, thanks, Frownland. I was originally in the spot right after Micco, so you can put me back there.

Lisnaholic 05-04-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons (Post 1585483)
.... I’ve read that “chicken on a raft” is slang for fried egg on fried bread...

^ That' s a bizarre but interesting fact, ribbons; a small piece of the puzzle, but as you suggest, we' re not really any the wiser.... Actually, you' ve just prompted me to track down this web page, which includes the complete lyrics -plus glossary- to Chicken on a Raft . Now you'll be able to sing along when your cd arrives!

https://mainlynorfolk.info/cyril.taw...enonaraft.html

Quote:

I’ve ordered a double CD of Young Tradition/So Cheerfully Round/Galleries/Chicken On a Raft (EP). A bargain! Thank you again for sharing your enthusiasm for YT, a group I for one didn’t even know about before. Looks like I have a treasure trove of listening in store.
^ Congratulations on your purchase, ribbons. If you' ve liked what you've heard so far - I'm sure you'll enjoy it, but I' d love to hear your impressions of the tracks too. The sea shanties on the Chicken EP are good, and also, on the other albums, watch out for The Innocent Hare and Pretty Nancy of Yarmouth - both are great little story songs imo. Happy listening! :)

Trollheart 05-07-2015 05:55 PM

When is this wrapping up? It's on page 2 now, and I'm ready with my battle... :pssst:

ribbons 05-07-2015 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1585787)
^ That' s a bizarre but interesting fact, ribbons; a small piece of the puzzle, but as you suggest, we' re not really any the wiser.... Actually, you' ve just prompted me to track down this web page, which includes the complete lyrics -plus glossary- to Chicken on a Raft . Now you'll be able to sing along when your cd arrives!

https://mainlynorfolk.info/cyril.taw...enonaraft.html

Lisna, that Mostly Norfolk site is a great resource, isn't it? Thanks so much for sharing it. The discussion in the sublink to the Mudcat Café is very interesting as well. I love the slang and playful use of language in the YT songs I’ve heard so far on YouTube. The Young Tradition two-CD set I ordered is due to arrive tomorrow. I’m sure to spend many enjoyable hours listening to it and singing along! Looks like we are having a very close race here with your well chosen contributions – “The S. and the H.” and “S.O.S.” – Frownland having broken the tie in favor of “The S. and the H.”.

Frownland 05-08-2015 04:45 PM

That's a win for Young Tradition. Trollheart, your turn to post a battle.

Trollheart 05-08-2015 05:27 PM

Thanks man. I first heard this at the beginning of the Peter Gabriel protest song "Biko" and it really stuck with me. It's actually the South African national anthem.
Nkosi sikelel iafrica by The Soweto Gospel Choir


and in total contrast, this is from Epicloud by Devin Townsend
Effervescent! by Devin Townsend Project

(Sorry, I couldn't get it on its own. It only lasts 45 seconds so if you want you can turn the video off after that)

DwnWthVwls 05-10-2015 10:07 AM

Gospel - 0
Townsend - 1

Not really big on that kind of choir sound, but Townsend was a little more upbeat and entertaining.

Lisnaholic 05-10-2015 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons (Post 1587198)
Lisna, that Mostly Norfolk site is a great resource, isn't it? Thanks so much for sharing it. The discussion in the sublink to the Mudcat Café is very interesting as well. I love the slang and playful use of language in the YT songs I’ve heard so far on YouTube. The Young Tradition two-CD set I ordered is due to arrive tomorrow. I’m sure to spend many enjoyable hours listening to it and singing along! Looks like we are having a very close race here with your well chosen contributions – “The S. and the H.” and “S.O.S.” – Frownland having broken the tie in favor of “The S. and the H.”.

^ You' re very welcome, ribbons. Mostly Norfolk seems to be a surprisingly large treasure trove of folk artists; there are so many new names that I started looking at them alphabetically. Inevitably, some of the singers have material that doesn't spark my interest much, but if I do strike gold of any kind I'll let you know - perhaps by PM, if that' s ok.
Yes, Mudcat Café is a site I plan to revisit when I have time - gotta love the name, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1587152)
When is this wrapping up? It's on page 2 now, and I'm ready with my battle... :pssst:

^ Yeah, don't you just hate it when people spoil a thread by discussing music?! Anyway, inB4 you report us to the mods, here is my verdict on your battle contestants, TH:-

Townsend: The opening bars reminded me of Queen for some reason, and nothing in the subsequent 45 secs was good enough to dispell that disagreeable impression, so my vote goes to:-

Soweto: This didn't have any of the military bombast you might expect from a national anthem. In fact it's a charming song that doesn't even have a hook as far as I could tell. Given the history of SA, I couldn' t help noticing that the choir were black and the audience were (mainly) white; it made the warmth of the applause and the palpable good cheer of the performers quite moving, imo.

Soweto Choir: 1
Devin Townsend: 1

Frownland 05-10-2015 07:23 PM

I like Townsend, but god I can't stand that record. Too cheesy for its own good. The anthem gets it for me because I thought it sounded more organic in a way.

Soweto Choir: 2
Devin Townsend: 1

Frownland 05-20-2015 08:49 AM

Not all at once, everybody.


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