Yeah, I know.

Emo was never used as an abreviation for emotional previous to the mid 1980s. The whole emo abreviation came about because saying emotional hardcore or emocore took lolol too long.

To me it seems that you and these scholars of music know nothing about said genres.

Don, you are such a smart guy. To bad that is as far as you'll get. The working force doesn't want a stuborn self-promoting closed-minded soul. They want someone that can change with the times. Now if you are going to argue a genre that you only know in words then you are proving my point.

Wow, so I know nothing about emo when all you've done is agree with what I just said. There is no ****ing difference between saying emo is short for emotional and saying it's short for emotional hardcore. I was just pointing out the significance between emo and emotional and why saying it's short for emotional doesn't mean you don't know anything about it because it's basically more or less what it means in a colloquial sense.

No. If that were the case Bruce Springsteen would be emo. The whole style is hardcore music. That's what it is, just hardcore.

Uh, no difference? emotional music can mean any music (rap, pop, rock, metal etc..). Emotional hardcore narrows it down to where it can be an actual genre. Instead of some any "emotional" band..

No, you see what you've done is taken the word emotional and taken music and put them together. That's not what happened when emo was first being developed.

I've already explained why this is silly. Read first post.

I'm writing a thesis on why Queen Latifah is progressive rock.

It doesn't matter if emo first stood for electric mother onion, the only thing that matters is what historically happened with the style.

Cause the scholary journal says so?

Yes, i'm writing it for the scholary journal.

So are you trying to say that Queen Latifah is as much prog rock as The Used are emo? I'm wasting my time here.

Find me an album which enorcoraptes the basic conceived definition of prog rock and I'll agree that she is somewhat prog. This is exactly what has happened with The Used but no one understands this simple fact.

Moses and I wrote a scholary journal on my penis being 30 feet long. So, it being a scholary journal makes it true.

Note to self: Don`t ever agree with Don ever again even if it`s only one small point.

*kicks self*

Scholarly journals are the highest form of credible information, so mocking them is just plain ludicrous.

If you`re going to post opinions at least have the balls to stand by them yourself

How do you know im mocking them? Do you have any proof my penis isn't 30 feet long? I don't think you've seen it, so you wouldn't know now would you?

The Dana Owns Album.

Fine, I apologise.

Scholarly journals can also be modified. How do we know that you didn't edit it?

How can you edit a published article?

Sure The Used draw slightly from the mid 90s style of indie infleunced emo but does that really make them an emo band? I think not. Lets use an example, lets say The Pop Group.

The Pop Group draw influences from dub and jazz music as well as numerous other genres. Does this make them a dub band? No.

When did I ever say "The Used are an emo band?" This is not what I'm arguing here. Everyone's saying that The Used aren't emo at all. I'm saying what you just said, they drew influences and consequently emo shows in some of their tracks.

"The Pop Group draw influences from dub and jazz music as well as numerous other genres. Does this make them a dub band? No."

Having influences is entirely different to applying those influences directly into your music. DT's primary influences are mostly prog-rock band like Yes, Rush and Pink Floyd. This doesn't mean DT are are just clones of them. But they took the prog-rock elements from that music and made it their own by making it heavier and whatever. So they have many prog metal tracks, but of course, not all their music is prog metal. So if someone asked me what type of music DT played, I wouldn't say yeah they're a prog metal band; I'd say they play all sorts from heavy metal, prog-rock, prog-metal, neo-prog, hard rock, etc.

This has become another one of Don's "DT is the best and because I listen to them I'm going to use them in my arguement to show how much more progressive my thinking is than everyone else, so I'm right."

And saying that emotional and emotional hardcore are basically the same is like saying acid jazz and elevator music are the same thing. Both draw from jazz influence, but it doesn't mean that elevator music has any real elements of jazz. All music is emotional; not all music has hardcore elements, and yes Don, hardcore does have a conceived definition, just like your precious prog-metal.

I don't want to get involved in this, but Fourfa (while still having some inaccurate information), is run by Andy Radin of Funeral Diner. You may have heard of them, their band plays a genre of music called.... Emu? Emi? Something like that. I think it involves screaming, as well. Screamoo, maybe?

Question, Don do you have any opinion on emo outside of this one "scholar journal"? Cause all i've seen is you generating your entire opinion on a genre from one article. Which is kind of weak...

Here are some links you should try and disapprove and fix ya' know cause they're wrong and I just wanna see how they're totally wrong.

http://fourfa.com
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=7002
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=13388

Shouldn't be hard since this scholar journal is so well done for you to disprove these aye?

Hey, it would be kind of cool if you could actually list how it shows and in which tracks. Ya know like *insert song here* you can obviously here inlfluneces from *insert band here* in the screaming/guitaring/drumming etc.. Instead of just going "Oh well they do cause I say so and I don't need to bring up any facts to back this up." Back up your post with facts and maybe people will start to take you more seriously.


See now this post made me LOL. *compares taking back sunday to heroin* *compares saetia to heroin*. Well its pretty obvious which band has emo roots there. Taking Back Sunday of course. :rolleyes:

Can you proves this? Emo could just as easiley mean emotive, emote, emollient and probaly more words I can't think of.


See now this post is completely inaccurate, you dismiss nearly every band that laid the foundations of emo regardless of which you consider emo. (See electric oceans post). You basically dismiss the entire screamo genre off. I fail to see how this "punk-pop" is closely related to emo. Then again with your logic, anberlin is emo and they sound the same as simple plan. Acutally have you heard untitled by simple plan? That song is emo according to your standards, even though it has 0 punk elements or hardcore elements. Also could you define indie-rock? I was pretty sure indie-rock was just rock group on an indepedent label which isn't a genre because it doesn't like the bands through actual sound. I've never known what "alternative rock is" i've always been told its alternative to mainstream rock, but I havn't bothered to ask around and look so I am not exactly going to stand by that.

I'm going to quote some of these "emo" lyrics.


I could go on, but I am not going to. To be honest those lyrics don't fit the bill all that well. They seem kind of lame and not very poetic. Now poetic would be well example saetia.

Thats is poetic and very emotional, I think it fits your definition way better, but I think thats stupid. Judging an entire genre on lyrics, why not have sexo? Or politicalo? Cause their is definetly enough lyrics on both going around, why can't they have their own genre? Infact, screw metal, classical etc.. Lets start grouping all the bands by lyrics instead. Because music isn't about sound, its about lyrics right?

This post is completely ignorant and fictional. I own the album, and you didn't even bother checking as to whether or not anyone else did. I have each used album. They're pop-punk with screaming, some tracks have slight hardcore elements but hardly enough to be considered emotionally driven hardcore.


Here you also consider false labelling evolving.

See this makes me laugh, because you basically say hardcore isn't anything by saying theres no difference between saying emo is short for emotional and emo is short for emotionaly hardcore. Theres a huge difference.


Now i've heard rites of spring's first album. As stated before I don't really think indie-rock is a proper genre. Its about as accurate of a definition as this supposed "emotional music" its too vast to be considered a genre. I mean indie rock could mean Crass, Red Light Sting, and Mae. These bands have nothing in common, but are all on independent record labels and play some form of rock music therefore, indie rock. You need to elobrate on this post. Also you said, rites of spring we're the first emo band, but they only had a few emo tracks. Wouldn't that mean they just put out the first emo songs, and weren't technically the first emo band, but in the post you also said they were. That contradicts itself, and also judging by your definition rites of spring wasn't the first one to do emo, Barry Manilow came before him and by your standards he was emo and their is probaly there was probaly alot more people before him playing emo. Just going by your standards. You're whole arguement is sketchy and poorly done as best. The bands are hardly linked. The emo education thread history seems way more likely to be valid then this "professionally written music article". But hey, if you wanna make it in the music industry you're on the right path. Keep going with whatever sells and believe everything you see on MTV. :thumb:


Oh I am also kind of stupid, seeing as you said that you've argued it before you can just copy and paste. Not too hard for a genius like you. Because all you really did was basically say "no you're wrong". Can you actually argue this statement this time? Assuming you can do that without your precious article, i'd like to see you stand on your own two feet in this arguement instead of just saying READ THE SCHOLAR JOURNAL.

The post I was refering to

Another thing, I think scholar journals are great for math, scienece etc... But they're kind of weak for music, art etc...Thats just my stance though. You're whole arguement once again has been lame, you've hardly been able to stand on you're own two feet and shock-shock people who know what they're talking about have been able to!


P.S. Don't be afraid to admit you're wrong on some points (or all) I doubt anyone will dog you constantly for it and treat you like crap. I'd personally think more of you for admitting to what you we're wrong then continuing to fight a lost battle.

I love DT but it has nothing to do with anything. In fact, I think Pagan's Mind and Angra share my number one spot.

I think I've mentioned it at least three times that that article was just ONE reference I used.
Notice how your links are just random people's opinions, I've already pointed this out before too.

But you see, I don't need to, I already explained that most of the tracks have traces of emo is them, but since you don't believe in my (the) definition of emo, then there's no point is there?



Ermmm, no I didn't, I mentioned the three most important artists in defining emo.

Because we're talking about emo.

Because you don't know what one side of emo is. If you just understood that, you'd finally realise you're wrong.

Yep, I'd consider Anberlin to be part emo, and you need your ears checked if you think they sound like Simple Plan.

There are no Simple Plan songs that are emo.

Sort of. Indie-rock is a style that incorporated rock with weird music techniques that makes it incompatible with the mainstream. Alternative rock used to be the same but because of Nirvana, it hit the mainstream.


Quote all you like, I never said the lyrics were the defining element. And I don't consider MCR to be emo, just post-hardcore.


Of course I didn't actually think no one had heard that album, I was just kidding and I didn't pull apart specific tracks because it would have made the post drawn-out. I'm glad you admit that some tracks have slight hardcore elements, you're almost there.



For the second time I was just saying that someone can say emotional music when he actually meant emotional hardcore. It's not the same as saying "This music is emotional," now that's a huge difference.

Well it is a style, look it up.

You misunderstood me.

Now you're nitpicking on my wording. I should have said they were the first band to play emo music, happy? Barry Manilow? That better be a joke. You really don't understand my concept of emo.

Uh no, I've properly told you exactly what emo is, it's just that you don't agree with it so you think my argument is sketchy. Actually, I don't even consider this to be arguing, because I know what emo is and all I'm trying to do is tell you.
I've hardly ever watched any music channel in my life.

I never once said that. Read back on my posts, I said that that was just one reference I've used. I feel like a broken record.

But you see, the thing is, you're wrong, so naturally you think I don't know what I'm talking about. The difference is I don't resort to calling you a ****ing idiot and saying you don't know what you're talking about over and over.


Believe me, I've been wrong and admitted it before on several occasions. It doesn't bother me at all, but what we're talking about here is pure fact. But okay let me pose this to you so we can finally agree on something. Let's agree that your definition of emo was right, but you have just failed to realise that the definition has changed over time, and it's extremely hard to pick up on exactly what is and isn't emo right now.

Hey professior, can you tell us about the original movement, when and where it began, about the first emo bands and about their influences?

And can you do it without using Wikipedia?

rofl. I've NEVER used wikipedia as any reference in my entire life. I've already discussed the most important aspects, if you want more, I sure ain't your babysitter.

Oh wait, you're the emo expert but you can't even give us a little history lession?

If you really want us to believe you know so much, you better start proving it.

C'mon, you're pathetic...At least try, just for sh*ts and giggles.

It's not that I can't, I just can't be bothered. I think someone gave a link regarding the history anyway.

Better start proving it? Well I've done my best to educate the uneducated but I guess I've failed my struggling students.

Well just face the fact that this forum is for discussion of underground, hardcore-related emo only, because the people who post here the majority of the time want it to be and if you don't like that just stop posting, we don't want to be "educated". At the end of the day if we didn't want the current wave of "emo" to be discussed we could just rename the forum "hardcore" as the current bands discussed here are hardcore but the mainstrem ones are not.

Yeah, I initially posted this in the rock/metal forum because there was a huge argument regarding whether C&C are emo or not, then it just went from there and it got moved into this forum.

Yeah, I love how you judge the articles/sites on the people instead of the actual information in them.

So basically, you don't have to prove your opinions?

According to your definition, their were many many many people/bands that played this "emo" music before they did.

Because they're totally different things. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I fail to see how I am wrong here.

Oh wow, have you heard both of them? Other then the different vocals they're the same genre.

Contradiction much?

Your concept of emo is pathetic, loose and as I said is just plain to messed up and complicated it followes no guidelines whatsoever its basically whatever don decides is emo.


Ugh i'm done with this thread, theirs no point your arguement blows. Anberlin is emo, but simple plan isn't? Its stupid and confusing and it seems like whatever you want to be emo is emo. Im too tired to bother trying to argue with you, you're like a brickwall on this, and are being close-minded about anything thats not don's opinion.

*leaves thread*