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Josef K 04-19-2014 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0 (Post 1441566)
Why not?

Because they're obnoxiously self-pitying. I mean, I like his lyrics (more with the Smiths than solo), because I think the sadder songs are quite funny, but that's more laughing at him than with him (unless his entire public persona is a lie). Not all his lyrics are like this and I apologize for the blanket statement.

Black Francis 04-19-2014 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1441600)
Because they're obnoxiously self-pitying. I mean, I like his lyrics (more with the Smiths than solo), because I think the sadder songs are quite funny, but that's more laughing at him than with him (unless his entire public persona is a lie). Not all his lyrics are like this and I apologize for the blanket statement.

And?

What, you want uplifting lyrics to make you feel better? NO! life is sh*t! especially to angsty teenagers that are all gloom & doom.

The thing you hate is what i most like about them.

Zer0 04-19-2014 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1441600)
Because they're obnoxiously self-pitying. I mean, I like his lyrics (more with the Smiths than solo), because I think the sadder songs are quite funny, but that's more laughing at him than with him (unless his entire public persona is a lie). Not all his lyrics are like this and I apologize for the blanket statement.

But a lot of people (including myself) can find something to relate to in Morrissey's lyrics, even the self-pitying stuff. I don't see any reason why his lyrics shouldn't speak to us.

Black Francis 04-19-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0 (Post 1441607)
But a lot of people (including myself) can find something to relate to in Morrissey's lyrics, even the self-pitying stuff. I don't see any reason why his lyrics shouldn't speak to us.

That how i feel too, i relate to flaws more than perfection.

I don't think it's a requisite to make songs with an optimistic message, not every band wants to talk about the same stuff and the smiths stand out among other bands precisely because of how whiny they are.

And i think it works for them and plus not every song has this same concept.

Josef K 04-19-2014 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis (Post 1441605)
And?

What, you want uplifting lyrics to make you feel better? NO! life is sh*t! especially to angsty teenagers that are all gloom & doom.

The thing you hate is what i most like about them.

I wouldn't say I hate it - they might be my favorite band so there's nothing about them that I hate. Anyway, as an angsty teenager, the sad music I like is more stripped-down acoustic stuff.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0 (Post 1441607)
But a lot of people (including myself) can find something to relate to in Morrissey's lyrics, even the self-pitying stuff. I don't see any reason why his lyrics shouldn't speak to us.

Sorry, it's not a problem for other people, I'm just stating my view. I see how it came across initially though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis (Post 1441616)
That how i feel too, i relate to flaws more than perfection.

I don't think it's a requisite to make songs with an optimistic message, not every band wants to talk about the same stuff and the smiths stand out among other bands precisely because of how whiny they are.

And i think it works for them and plus not every song has this same concept.

I never said it had to be cheerful, I'm objecting to the way that they do sad songs lyrically.

Black Francis 04-19-2014 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1441639)
I wouldn't say I hate it - they might be my favorite band so there's nothing about them that I hate. Anyway, as an angsty teenager, the sad music I like is more stripped-down acoustic stuff.

Sorry, it's not a problem for other people, I'm just stating my view. I see how it came across initially though.


I never said it had to be cheerful, I'm objecting to the way that they do sad songs lyrically.

K' so it's just your personal opinion, i can respect that :)

But like i said the thing you dislike is what i like the most about them.
For exmpl i got into them through the song "Heaven knows im miserable now" which has very whiny lyrics but the guitar rhythm is great so even if you don't like his message you can still enjoy other parts of the song.

Josef K 04-19-2014 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis (Post 1441658)
K' so it's just your personal opinion, i can respect that :)

But like i said the thing you dislike is what i like the most about them.
For exmpl i got into them through the song "Heaven knows im miserable now" which has very whiny lyrics but the guitar rhythm is great so even if you don't like his message you can still enjoy other parts of the song.

Oh, yeah, completely. Johnny Marr is my favorite guitar player ever (well, maybe Jonny Greenwood, but definitely top two), and I think musically they're fantastic in general. "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now" isn't my favorite song of theirs but that isn't about the lyrics.

Zer0 04-19-2014 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis (Post 1441616)
That how i feel too, i relate to flaws more than perfection.

This almost sums up perfectly how I feel when I'm listening to my favourite music. I doubt that The Smiths would have the same effect on me if Morrissey was singing about how perfect his life was.

Neapolitan 04-19-2014 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1441564)
The Smiths are one of my three or four favorite musical artists, but it annoys me when angsty teenagers talk about how much Morrissey's lyrics speak to them. Morrissey's lyrics shouldn't speak to you. They're a great band because they wrote great pop songs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0 (Post 1441566)
Why not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1441600)
Because they're obnoxiously self-pitying. I mean, I like his lyrics (more with the Smiths than solo), because I think the sadder songs are quite funny, but that's more laughing at him than with him (unless his entire public persona is a lie). Not all his lyrics are like this and I apologize for the blanket statement.

I don't know how being glib is suppose speak to someone in a meaningful way. Some of the lyrics are so melodramatic they become ridiculous. Girlfriend In A Coma the lyrics are about a situation that's seemingly serious enough (about a girlfriend who may or may not survive) and yet Morrissey is still able to pull it off as being insincere about his comatose girlfriend. He is definitely not singing something with the sincerity that give the same depth and and meaning to a song e.g. as Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, or some other Country song that makes you want to cry in your beer. Just thinking about a situation where you could loose your girlfriend should have you bawling your eyes out but for some reason with his songs you don't. How does he do it? I really don't know. He gives these sad songs a little twist or something then they reach that potential as being heart wrenchingly sad as they could had been or should had been.

Josef K 04-20-2014 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1441743)
I don't know how being glib is suppose speak to someone in a meaningful way. Some of the lyrics are so melodramatic they become ridiculous. Girlfriend In A Coma the lyrics are about a situation that's seemingly serious enough (about a girlfriend who may or may not survive) and yet Morrissey is still able to pull it off as being insincere about his comatose girlfriend. He is definitely not singing something with the sincerity that give the same depth and and meaning to a song e.g. as Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love You, or some other Country song that makes you want to cry in your beer. Just thinking about a situation where you could loose your girlfriend should have you bawling your eyes out but for some reason with his songs you don't. How does he do it? I really don't know. He gives these sad songs a little twist or something then they reach that potential as being heart wrenchingly sad as they could had been or should had been.

I don't think I disagree with any of this. But I think there are a lot of people (including a bunch of friends of mine) who would tell you his lyrics do "speak to them".


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