I get that, I have a friend who follows right wingers just to dunk on them, but I feel like his twitter follows plus his general "fiscal conserative"ness, his wife's channel, and even I'm pretty sure I saw some text screenshots where he praises Blaire White, it all just makes me uncomfortable.

No judgement on people who enjoy his videos for the content, but I don't think that content is enjoyable enough to overlook the skeevy **** and continue following him.

But yeah, speaking as a slam enthusiast since 2008 I think he definitely greatly increased the exposure for that genre and that's pretty cool.

Oh how you feel about Russian slam? Cause Katalepsy and Abominable Putridity are way different from standard slam but I think they crossover with brutal DM in a way that makes for the most immediate and crushing death metal maybe ever without having to just be lightning in a bottle like None So Vile.

I like both of those bands! I was actually first introduced to slam as a whole by some really old youtube poop video that used an Abominable Putridity song, haha. It is a pretty different vibe than a lot of traditional slam, but I do dig that style a lot as well.

He made a "dad rock" tier list where he ranked Creed above Queens of the Stone Age.

I rest my case.

As a better band or a more dad-rock band?

As a better band.

He also thinks Converge are a dad rock band for some reason. The term "dad rock" has become completely meaningless, it could mean literally any rock band that existed before 2008.

Creed is super ass, but I struggle because I think Mark Tremonti is a great player.

I like My Own Prison but that's it.

Higher does make me a little nostalgic for the early 00s despite it being an objectively terrible song, it brings back warm fuzzy memories of seeing that trailer for Titan A.E. in movie theaters. :laughing:

"What If?" slaps but everything else has lost whatever amount of charm it might have had.

You're an R.E.M. hater, aren't you?

The Smiths inventing indie is a pretty wack take.

They didn't even invent jangle pop.

Is indie a distinct genre? I've seen that term applied to such a wide swath of rock music, from Sonic Youth to Stereolab to Beck to Neutral Milk Hotel to Bright Eyes to LCD Soundsystem. I honestly think filing bands under "indie" isn't an adequate way to actually denote their musical characteristics.

Indie just became the catch all term for bands on independent labels who couldn't be put into other categories and even when those artists joined major labels the term stuck.

So no it's not really a genre, most of the "subgenres" are vastly different styles that just happen to fall under the indie umbrella because they have no place else to go.

PRMBA just stinks of conservatism.

First indie song

I'll be dead before I figure out why first matters.

Clout and argument starting

I guess that makes sense.

I thought he would be ok at first because the first video I ever saw from him was mocking Kid Rock which is an activity I can fully get behind, but then I watched a few more videos and realized how sh*tty his taste in music is, and then I learned about how much of a reactionary he is.

He dresses like someone from Prager U trying to be hip with the kids, that should have been the first red flag.

It's a pleasure to read such a robust condemnation of R.E.M.

I have been curious, disappointed and puzzled by this group. Why are they so highly thought of? There's a clip on youtube with a guy explaining for 18 mins why Losing My Religion is a "song that changed music". I couldn't find anything in the song to justify that claim at all. To me it was just a ho-hum song, conventional structure and instrumentation, with (yet again) a young man over-sharing some angst I'm not interested in.

I've always liked REM a lot, especially their 80s stuff. Early on, they had more of a punky Velvet Underground influence. The lyrics were abstract and mumbly. The songs were usually upbeat yet somehow also bittersweet. To me it really works, especially as late night music. Here's an example, the song "Wolves, Lower" from their first release, the Chronic Town EP:

Thanks for pointing me to the right part of their discography to find the good stuff. I'm at work at the moment but will play your rec later.

REM is my second favorite band next to the Beatles. I too prefer the eighties material over the other recordings as they became a little more commercial by the time of Document (1987). Still, they have their moments later on as well such as Document and especially Automatic For the People.

This has always been a favorite of mine off Reckoning...

Why The Smiths? Why not The Feelies? The Soft Boys? The Go-Betweens? The Church? Felt? Orange Juice? Aztec Camera? All those bands were around before The Smiths.

Oh hey you know who else was around before The Smiths? R.E.M.

The Smiths just happened to be the most popular so they get all the credit.

You really are a treasure trove of wrong opinions.

Oh come on now, REMs lyrics are usually as cogent as The Fall's lyrics are.

Their early stuff is great, but they had a lot of great stuff in the '90s too. If you shy away from it, you'll miss some great stuff.





And personally, I think Up is their best album. So many beautiful songs on that record, it's just crazy.



REM is definitely one of my favorite bands. Besides The Fall and Miles Davis, they're the artist I own the most records of.

That's more like it!!

Thanks for posting some properly good R.E.M. songs. I'll prob check out some more, but on first listen these were the ones I liked best:

^ That makes an unusually trilogy of "most owned" records, SGR! Very interesting.
I can only do mine from memory as I no longer have them, but when I was an LP buyer, I had (clear winner) John Fahey, then Dylan, then runners-up prob Beefheart or Allman Bros.

I'm glad you liked "Wolves, Lower"! If you're interested in hearing more, the rest of Chronic Town is great as well, and it's only five tracks long. Their first full length, Murmur, is also very good and has a similar sound.

As far as their 90s stuff goes, I really like the Monster album. Definitely a departure from their classic sound, but them experimenting with more distorted guitars was cool to see and I think that whole album is pretty underrated.

^ "Distorted guitars" ?! I'm in, Synthgirl !

Thanks. I'll give that a go. "Chronic Town" is a good title, and at 5 tracks long, I'm prepared to commit the time to it .

Haha, I hope you enjoy those 20 minutes.

This is topic-adjacent, but how did weed come to be called chronic?

You should do the whole REM catalogue to see how they transformed over the years. I should do an REM thread on Guybrush's forum (There's already one here buried down in the archives somewhere). Have to get off the keyster first though.

Yep, get that *rse in gear, rs ! As for me, I'll see how I get on with the recs so far before I explore the whole R.E.M. story...

:laughing: Blimey, 20 minutes is only half-way into an Allman Brothers jam !

Yeah, i suppose it is. It doesn't necessarily mean I'd put REM in my top 3 bands or anything, they've just got a lot of records and I like them enough to buy most of them. The gentle melodies of Buck, Stipe, and Mills were a constant companion through my mid to late teen years, so REM will always have a special place in my heart.

Speaking of REM, I somehow forgot to include this tune, which is on the same record as "E-Bow the Letter" - great stuff:



On the topic of Beefheart, what's your favorite record from his discography?

If memory serves, it was Dre's first album 'The Chronic' that popularized that slang - I think it was Snoop (or maybe Dre) that misheard 'hydroponic weed' as 'hydrochronic weed'. Or maybe someone who they were smoking with was high and mispronounced it - but anyways, they adopted 'chronic' as a shorthand for that weed and well, I'm sure you can guess the rest of the story, given how well Dre's debut sold.

^ Yes, I've had the same experience: music I loved in my mid to late teens have an unassailable (© OH) place in my heart - which neatly leads into:-

Trout Mask was my favourite for years, briefly displaced by Spotlight Kid when it came out, then it was back to TMR, although for the last 30 years or so, I'd say Strictly Personal was my fave. If you want other people's opinions, album-by-album, on Beefheart's discography, this thread created by Trollheart makes an interesting read:

https://www.musicbanter.com/general-...eart-week.html

And how about you, SGR: What's your favourite Miles Davis album?

Also, in a clumsy attempt to get back on topic, is Capt. Beefheart an indie artist?

Interesting...if I were to guess, I would've pegged you as a 'Safe as Milk' fan. The woozy, circuitous electric blues of his early years. Happily surprised though! I'm fairly familiar with Beefheart's discography and I gotta say, I'm not sure what you saw in 'Spotlight Kid' (enlighten me, if you're at all inclined), I found that album to be rather dull, at least in terms of Beefheart's standards.

Favorite Miles album, damn. That's a difficult one. To be frank, I think that might change month to month, but if I had to give an answer at this very moment I'd say 'Filles De Kilimanjaro'. For the most part, my favorite period of Miles was his second great quintet - and this album represented the end of that - and hinted at new beginnings (his fusion work). Tony Williams, as young as he was at the time, was a complete savant on the drum kit - as was often the case in this time period Wayne Shorter's influence and compositions had a serious influence and drive on the group. Miles, being the ever-effective bandleader rallied the likes of Shorter, Williams, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, and Ron Carter together to make some absolutely delicious moods. I believe Gil Evans even had a hand in this one in terms of composition and arrangements, and of course, being a big fan of 'Porgy and Bess' and 'Sketches of Spain', that's a plus for me. It's just a really surreal and cerebral album that sits at a very interesting point in the evolution of Miles' sound. One of those jazz records that you could throw on while working or on a road trip or during some housecleaning. It just takes you places. One of those few records that's just as effective regardless if you're sober, drunk, or high - or a mixture. A seriously unsung and beautiful record.



Runners up: A Tribute to Jack Johnson, On the Corner, In A Silent Way, ESP, and of course, Kind of Blue.

Best Miles Davis album: Sketches of Spain hands down

I prefer Bitches Brew.

It's got a lot of redeeming factors but one thing that's always irked me about that record is how high and how shrill Miles' trumpet sounds in the mix. For the Gil Evans stuff, I think I prefer Porgy and Bess as a whole.

Edit: Because Miles has a lot of celebrated albums, even some of his celebrated stuff is missed by many. Take for example this incredibly beautiful piece that opens up Workin' with the Miles Davis Quintet:



Or the entirety of the film score he did for the 1958 French film Ascenseur pour l'échafaud (his album score has the same name) - listening to it makes you feel like a cool but castoff detective, down on his luck, smoking a cigarette while you walk the sparsely lit streets of New Orleans in the '50s - and goddamnit, the cigarette just won't stay burning:

Everyone realizes that it's just your opinion but somehow it's still annoying


Yeah a film famous for the soundtrack and the female lead (imho the single greatest French actress): "The best performance, by far, is that of Moreau, because Malle includes extended scenes of her essentially doing nothing—wandering the streets of Paris at night and contemplating her troubles—and he had the inspiration to notice that Moreau doing almost nothing is an absorbing spectacle in itself."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icJw9HXXoXA

Probably my favorite track from that soundtrack


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvwB...lesDavis-Topic