Well, that's funny, because if I recall, in Exodus there is a part where Moses is trying to convince the Pharaoh to let his people go, and every time he asks the Pharaoh God "hardens" the Pharaoh's heart, and the Pharaoh denies Moses' request. So, where's the free will / choice in that? In fact, that's a pretty sadistic God, if you ask me.

So, maybe you should be the one reading the Bible. Because that's just one example of hundreds of occurences of hypocrisy and contradictions in that book.

But does it ever say that his heart is 'harder'? Does God favour Moses, and was he the one that ordered Moses to go and demand his people be freed?

God made man in his own likeness.

Didn't God give man everything?

So why make something that is flawed?

Shoddy craftmanship God! :confused:

I'd consider mindless and non free thinking humans a flaw.

No God didnt give man everything, they didnt know all the things unitl they ate from the tree of knowledge, the way we live now isnt the way God intended

It doesn't affect me deeply. I'm just saying it's bull to worship a God who is loving, all powerful and lets stuff like that happen anyway.

Kurt: he gave us the gift of choice and made us flawed knowing full well that we would make the wrong choices. Loving? Hardly. We would not need to help others if he had not put us into a perpetuating situation where others will always need help. We have institutions that can sort it but if God is as loving as he claims, we shouldn't need them.

Who says I haven't read the bible? I had the damn thing driven into me. But then again, "God" "gave" me free choice. I'll knock the **** out of him if I want.

Incompetent too.

^He didnt make us flawed, because we wasnt created to know sin, but we recognised right from wrong when Adam and Eve ate from the tree. If we didnt recognice right from wrong, and lived in paradise, it would be impossible to sin. But because we disobeyed one simple rule, we were cast from paradise, but still he loved us. And since after that we could sin, he gave us twelve commandments, so we knew where not to **** up.

So it isn't a flaw to be tempted by the words of the Serpent? I'd have said that was a pretty massive flaw. He made us knowing we could be tempted. He made us knowing that we would be tempted. He made us knowing that once tempted we would know sin. He made us flawed.

It's like going "I know that if X and Y occurs you will kill a man. However, I trust your decision to not kill said man (though I know you will). Neither do I plan to do anything out to help you in regards to X and Y. And you don't know that it's destined to happen, so you can't realise what's going on. Infact I haven't said this - you don't know you're going to kill a man, but I do."

You know, its not like God had a plan and knew that it would happen or anything...