Islam Cartoons
 

The situation with the Islamic Denmark published cartoons is a mess. But here is an article from a journalist over here in NZ, Joe Bennett. I don't normally like his articles but he poses some points in here, admittedly these have probably been discussed before, but is the first I've seen of them. Just read thi and comment on the article or your thoughts on the situation.

Calls For Respect Prevent Obvious Questions Being Asked
"What a coup for cartooning. I have heard it suggested that a dozen cartoons, from Denmark of all places, may yet spark World War 3.
They won't, of course, because the leaders of Islam know they haven't got enough guns, but it's nice to know that the art of caricature still packs a kick.
The purpose of a cartoon is not to be funny. Being funny is the method. The purpose of a cartoon is to tell the truth. Truth is immediately recognisable and often funny.
The muslim world has not found the cartoons funny. The obstensible reason is that Islam forbids pictures of Muhammad. But that reason doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Five minutes on the internet and I had discovered several pictures of Muhammad.
I am also reliably informed that you can buy a picture of Muhammad in the central market at Tehran. So, there must be something else thats upsetting the Islamic world to the point that they're firebombing embassies, marching down Queen Street and boycotting Danish yoghurt.
I have seen only two of the cartoons. The first depicts Muhammad with a bomb in his turban. It is not particularly witty. The point it is obviously making is that some people commit acts of murder in the name of the prophet. Equally obviously, that point is true.
The reaction of a few Muslims has been funnier than the cartoon. "Slay those who insult Islam" said one placard carried by a protester, thereby exquisitely reinforcing the point of the cartoon he is protesting against.
He reminds me of the christian fundamentalist who murdered an abortionist on the grounds that the abortionist committed murder.
The second cartoon is wittier. It depicts Muhammad emerging from Muslim heaven to apologise to a stream of dead suicide bombers for having run out of virgins.
The reference is to the promise of 144 virgins to anyone who dies for the Islamic cause. (What attitude this implies to women, I shall ignore for the moment, though it does make me wonder what female suicide bombers get in the hereafter. A gross of Islamic Brad Pitts? A platinum Burka?)
What has been ignored amid the eruption of belligerance, apology, and yoghurt flinging is that the two cartoons invite two simple questions.
First, does Islam condone suicide bombers? Does it approve of blowing themselves up and killing the innocent? If so, then cartoons should be only the start of the mockery. Such a faith should be as universally condemned as Nazism. If not, if Islam does not approve of murder, then every Imam and Ayatollah should stand up and say so.
Second, is it a tenet of the Islamic faith that suicide bombers get a gross of virgins in heaven? If so, then once again the faith should be universally condemned. If not, then every Imam and Ayatollah should stand up and say so. And if they did, the hated cartoons would stop.
What has prevented these simple questions being asked is the usual argument about respect. It is our duty, the argument runs, to respect other people's beliefs. I, for one, have never had any idea why. Anything true can always withstand mockery.
Copernicus's belief that the Earth moved round the sun endured everything the Catholic Inquisitian could throw at it. And the Inquisition didn't just print cartoons. It pulled out fingernails. It incinerated it's enemies. But the truth endured.
Moreover, the rule about respecting other religions is selectively maintained. If a religion is small it is known as a cult, and a cult is fair game. Established religions are just cults that got big. Their beliefs are every bit as bizarre as the beliefs of little cults. Not questioning them is not an act of respect. It'sm erely not upsetting the status quo.
The Western belief that has sparked this controversy is the belief in freedom of speech. It's a belief I share, because history demonstrates that a free press is our best defence against tyranny. Every tyrant in history has muzzled the press.
Obstensibly, our leaders (in NZ) share my belief, but when the heat came on they renounced it.
"I approve of freedom of the press" said Helen Clark (PM) on television, "but".
"I approve of freedom of the press" said Don Brash on television, "but".
In other words, both of them worried more about votes or exports than about the truth.
In doing so they echoed Hamdi Hassan, an Egyptian MP. "Freedom of expression", said Hassan, "does not mean people are free to insult prophets".
I'm sorry Hassan, but that is precisely what it means. Freedom means freedom. And if a prophet is a true prophet he's not going to get upset.
The vast majority of the one-and-a-half billion Muslims in this world are good and peaceable people. They don't blow themselves up. They don't hate the West. They are superb hosts. They love their children. Tey are closer to Muhammad than their leaders are. The same is true of Christians and Christ.
Both religions began with one man. Both men were apparently tolerant. Both proposed a system of living, a code of social behavior.
After their deaths, however, their teachings became perverted. They became dressed in nonsensical theology.
That theology ossified into a system for gaining and retaining power. It became, in other words, merely political.
The grip of the Islamic authorities in Iran is indistinguishable from the grip of, say, the Catholic authorities in Spain and Ireland well into the 20th century, or the grip of the Soviet Union. Such a grip is noxious thing.
And if a dozen cartoons can shake it, it's a vulnerable thing."

Merkaba. A very well put opinion. I am of a similar ilk as you. Freedom of speech is good through cartoons like this. For me seeing the one of Mohamed turning away suicide bombers is very funny. It's comical. It also makes being a muslim appear less threatening to people like me who are not religous.

I would like to know if any followers of Islam actually thought I actually don't care about this issue. It's not that important in the general scheme of things.

(sorry for misquote Merkaba. That was someones article you posted, not your words)

Haha thats okay. I put it up there since I could see the logic in what he was saying as well.

Seen a couple of them, but in all fairness I'd have to say I couldn't care less what another bunch of hypocritical religious nutters think.

Yeah well hypocritical is the right word. The protesting Islams are living up to the cartoons interpretations of violence and terrorism, having seen the signs they're marching about with.

Seriously; cartoon depicts terrorist religion, protesters march about with signs of death threats, death threats depict terrorism, terrorism depicts the cartoons.

Can they not work out how guilty they look right now?

I agree. In the newspaper yesterday they had a quote from one guy (paraphrased):

They asked him - "Why has there been such a violent, aggressive and sometimes deadly reactions from certain muslims towards these cartoons".
His answer was - "Because we're sick of muslims being associated with terrorism and violence".

The logic behind this still baffles me.

I'm sorry, but this story pisses me off. I respect the fact that Muslims think it is blasphemous to depict the Prophet Mohammed in such a manner, but reacting with violence to basically what was a "mockery" of certain follower's violent-tendency.... that really makes me want to punch people (ha!)

yeah, they responded to a caricature that intended to criticise islam for being an excuse for violence with violence.....way to prove them wrong.....

Have you heard the new Muslim Joke? Dignity.

Like they say, Mo' hammed. Mo' problems.

I'd like to ask, why did cartoons start this all off? There's always something anti-suicide bombing being put out there!

I think they need to get their religion properly removed from the act of terrorism, because that's not how the real islams follow it.

^Well yeah thats what ol' Bennett said in his article, he said the peaceful normal Muslims are far closer to Muhammad then their leaders are.

I love how all the fanatical muslims constantly spew out the words "Islam means "love", it's not a violent religion at all" whenever something like this happens. Sure you're not violent and intolerant, you just believe that women are a man's property, that she shouldn't be able to go anywhere without her father/brother/husband's permission, that she must cover every area of her body entirely (even in 50 degree celcius heat), that she can be beaten at will by any male relative for any reason, legally, and that all "infidels" must be slaughtered in a holy jihad all in the name of that "loving" religion you call Islam. Yeah, REAL loving.....

Yeah the women really miss out in that religion. I say they need to update the religion to the 21st century, or at least equal rights?

What am I saying, that's like getting China to stop being a communist country!

Calm down, calm down! Those people are right in a certain way. If you read the Qu'ran (which I haven't done, admittedly) then I think there's very little in there that suggest people should commit violent acts against women or against one's enemies. As this book is the basis of Islam then I think they're right to say that, at its core, Islam is a peaceful religion.

The problem is that religious figureheads tend to interpret the writings of holy books to suit their own goals and opinions, which are sometimes violent, while claiming that their religion tells them to do it. This then gives a bad impression of everybody else who's associated with that religion, most of whom have no violent tendencies at all.

I actually HAVE read the Qu'ran (not entirely, but parts), and I have read passages that explicitly state that a woman is a man's posession, must be covered at all times etc etc etc. It's actuallt stated in their holy book that a woman is a comodity, who should have no rights, and in every way is a man's posession. Many islamic countries HAVE updated their laws, and many modern muslims realize that these are completely barbaric rules and should be changed. however, they are still devout muslims, live by the Qu'ran in every other way, and are generally wonderful and admirable people.

I didn't know that part about women being commodities, thanks for the info.

yeah, definitely not a charming aspect of the religion. Don't get me wrong, I've known tons and tons of muslims in my life (growing up in Saudi Arabia has that effect), and the majority are smart, kind, tolerant, just all around great people. They've been able to take the Qu'ran and adapt it to modern living. However, I've also met my fair share of people who are your stereotypical extremist muslims. One guy I went to school with is apparently serving in the Syrian army now, after being kicked out of the country after being involved in a terrorist bombing. He stole my eraser in second grade. bastard.

^ that's how it all starts..............................erasers

yep, so if anyone ever stole your erasrer as a child, they're gonna be a terrorist. It's a proven fact.

I just find it funny that these people who hate the west so much choose to live here.

We have free speech , if we want to take the piss out of a religion we can.
If you don`t like it go live in Afganistan or Saudi Arabia or somewhere else with appalling human rights records.

you're right, you came to live in europe, you agreed to play by european rules, and since we are not muslims, we don't have to abide by the rule that mohhamed is not to be depicted on paper....simple as that, you don't like it? don't buy the papers, don't look at it....

it seems that its not just cartoons that have these guys panties in a bunch..

new sex doll called "Mustafa Shag" has got their blood boiling as well.

http://news.independent.co.uk/people...icle344202.ece

:clap:
GOD this just reminded me of something a few weeks ago.

I was at work when some muslim guy comes storming in knocking everything over demanding compensation because his kettle he bought, the light didnt come on when he flicked the button. (I wouldnt mind but our shop refunds or exchanges the bloddy thing with no hassle if you've got the reciept).

At which point assistant asks him to keep his voice down or he will not be served, to which he then accuses us all of being racist bastards. I ignored him, but then he says something along the lines of "this stupid country" etc..And thats when i lose my temper.

"look mate, that thing in your hand is a EUROPEAN passport, you don't have to come here if things are so great in your country, and theres about 30 or so other countrys you can visit with your passport, so if you dont like it, you know what you can do".

It annoys me enough when English people moan about the state of this country, but when some little foreigner comes over here and says how it's not as good as their precious country.....GO ****ING BACK THEN, GET BLOWN TO F'ING PIECES AND REVERT TO BEING A MOSOGONYST, YE ****ING ****

http://blog.newspaperindex.com/2005/...posten-racism/

And here`s a link to them if anyone hasn`t seen them

well....
 

I am a muslim woman and i live in the UK....i have alot to say. First of all, you are all ignorant of what islam really is.....Islam condems those who commit murder, even more so if they use Allah (God) as an excuse! I would like to say that the muslims that do suicide bombings are not seen as muslims by most of us, they are the biggest traitors of Islam. I would also like to say that in the Qu’ran it says to question your beliefs, that is why muslims are usually the ones who know must about their own religion and other religions, i know alot of muslims who know the bible better than alot of christians, becuase we so strongly believe in the truth of our religion we force ourselves to question everything we can so our belief can grow stronger when our questions are answered. And the whole thing with getting virgins in heaven is a metaphor (because women are seen as so precious and teasured, they are the most valuable thing in the world), and dying for Islam means to die as a soldier fighting against people who condemn our religion…not to kill any innocent people, only other soldier, in fact what we call ‘war’ today is not seen as a war in Islam, it is just murder because you are not killing only soldier but women and children, dropping bombs is a cowards way if fighting, fight people who are willing to die.
And the whole thing about sexism, well Islam so NOT sexist, it puts women on a pedestal, saying if you raise 3 daughters you will secure your place in heaven as women are seen as so precious as they give birth. Also, the thing about burkhas, not only women are told to have modesty, but there is also a dress code for men, they are meant to keep a beard and not grow their hair long but to shave it regularly and to not expose their bodies, the same as women. And are Imams enlightening people about how truly peaceful and respectful Islam is? well I think they are but do you not see that the media is very controlled, you will only hear what Muslims have to say when they are saying things of hatred, nothing of their religion, what you hear and read is very controlled. Think about it, when a Muslim murders someone, they always describe him as a young Muslim man, never just a young man, do you every hear them say that a young Christian man or a young Jewish man is a murderer or a terrorist? Were the Nazis ever referred to as Christians? NO! They were Germans, or National Socialist, and Hitler often used parts of the Bible to justify his massacre. So what makes the media constantly tell you they are Muslim, well maybe they are from a Muslim country but does that mean that the deed they do can be seen as typical things that a Muslim would do? Can you see how stupid it is?

Oh and also, in the Qu’ran it says many scientific facts that were discovered thousands of years later by western scientists, like the world being round, what the sea looks like at the floor of the ocean, what a foetus looks like, that humans are made of mostly water….so many things like this.

I am not saying I disagree with freedom of speech, but how can it be called freedom of speech when it is to mock someone’s deepest beliefs in the most crass and disrespectful way? Do you really think this is something that should be printed in a newspaper? Look at the effect ‘the Da Vinci code’ had on the Catholic Church! Imagine if we had depicted Jesus in a cartoon as a killer, don’t you think the same reaction would take place…no way am I saying that people should have died over a cartoon some ignorant fool wrote but can you see that this did not happen because they are Muslims, it is totally irrelevant.

Also, Muslims don’t think Muhammad (pbuh) is vulnerable but imagine someone calling your mother a whore except a hundred times worse, we believe prophets, including Jesus are the best of mankind, as Aristotle said ‘men have the potential to be the most noble creature and the most corrupt’ we believe that Muhammad (pbuh) being the last prophet was the greatest with the most updated teachings and the only one with a holy book that was not written by any human being but by Allah himself…..I don’t think you can imagine the significance of the prophet (pbuh) to us. Anyway, I hope this helped and if you have further questions about Islam you can email me on umberg@hotmail.com

I can understand why people would be offended by it but you totally missed the point that most of the people here posted.

That is, a cartoon mocking Islamic terrorists is printed and then people go out on the streets waving banners & placards with death threats on them.

And Christians are not poked fun at?
What about Jerry Springer the musical ? that was broadcast on primetime television and drew a record number of complaints from Christians compaining it was blasphemous. Yet I didn`t see the Catholic church marching the streets threatning to bomb the BBC.

I can see what your saying , and you do talk a lot of sense , but surely even you can see that at a time when people are very suspicious about Islam that it`s probably not the best way to convince people you are not a bunch of terrorists by going out in the streets threatening to kill people?

And if you have any questions about music you can post here www.musicbanter.com

i totally get what you are saying and i honestly HATE the people who think being violent is going to stop people from discriminating against muslims, that will just make it worse, i am not defending them i am just trying to show you that there are so many things that people think about muslims and islam but they are totally untrue. i mean islam is a religion about respect, how can people respect you if you threaten to bomb them, its just plain stupid and barbaric and i associate my religion with these people it's like a christian associating themselves with the klu klux klan. all i'm trying to do is maybe educate people a bit and show that Muslims are not a part of some cult that doesnt have any of the same values as the western world, in fact chrisitan beliefs and buddhist beliefs are very similar to islamic beliefs, we believe that they are just slightly corrupted or mislead in small ways but the way of life is very similar and we respect all beliefs. so please be curious and learn about Islam, read the Qu'ran don't just believe what people say is in it becuase most of it is maybe misconstrued