...back to the topic. is killing thousands of innocent iraqi cilivilians and western soldiers worth the capture of one man?

You haven't done anything to anyone. You've yet to state one fact in this whole argument. Just spewing off random ideas when it's clear you have no idea what the **** you are talking about. It's best you just stop making an ass of yourself and don't look like any more of an idiot.

The man was captured before thousands of "innocent Iraqi's" were killed. It's the whole liberation and setting up a new government while having to deal with the extremists that are still left that has led to the killings. I'm sure that at some point in the war, innocent civilians have been killed, but just because the news agency make every single Iraqi killed seem like it was an innocent bystander just walking down the street does not mean that is the truthful situation. I have friends over in Iraq who say the civilians there treat the soldiers like ****, not listening to anything they say at road checks and walking around pointing AK's at the soldiers.

so are you saying you are against the war now? because i seem to recall you argueing with me a couple of months ago about it and you were for it....

and, i hesitated to say this before, but regardless of the fact that the us invading iraq was/is wrong, i have to say that the current situation and complete anarchy was in most part created by the iraqies themselves , that is, the shi'a muslims fighting the sunni muslims....most iraqies today are dying from the hands of other iraqies, which is tragic, as bad as saddam was, that sort of thing did not happen under his iron fist....which leads me to conclude that those people need someone like saddam to keep them in order, they're obviously quite incapable of taking care of themselves....

Insurgents, nice word. Not nationalists? You know like the I.R.A. as in get the ****
out of my country?
you should have hesitated some more. Yes things worked better under Hussein's
regime, and people do things differently in different cultures, like communists.To
accuse an entire country of not being able to take care of themselves after being
invaded by 'the west' who want to turn a complex tribal based nation into 'the west'.
Is naieve and insulting.

No.

i see what i see, i have relised that most people in iraq today die by the hads of other iraqies, that's what i'm speaking of, and you cannot compare it with the ira, who's struggle, but not the means to achieve it, i wholeheartedly support, if you watch the news more carefully you would notice that the main problem now is the fight for power between the long oppressed majority shi'a muslims, who have come into power after a long time, and the suni muslims who are not willing to deal with the new situation, the majority of the people dying are the shi'a muslims and by the hand of suni muslims....they obviously hate each other more then the us....i don't see why my opinion would be naive or insulting, i only stated facts which you cannot refute ....
if you had bothered to read the whole thread you would know my position on the war, and i never used the word insurgents, you may be reffering to someone else....

yes, you're right, things are much better now.....

Not yet, but given the right time to set things up I strongly believe that they will be.