These drug references always confuse me.

Are you saying it wasn't justified, then? Because your previous comment and many others you've made seem like you think the great leap forward was the right move.

As for cold war propanganda, that cuts both ways. But I'm not sure what I'm saying that isn't factually correct. Mao and Stalin starved their own populations both for military and economic reasons. That has procured them some advantages strategically (more
notably in the USSR than in China) but it is nonetheless mass murder.

I'm not like your friends in this thread who think the method is irrelevant; I think Hitler was worse because I do see a distinction in rounding people into camps and systemically executing them. That was the very distinction that was being downplayed by your side earlier in the conversation.

It'll look good hanging next to his "All Lives Matter" flag. :D

Lol, why are you expecting consistency from the Sob Squad. In a different discussion I got lectured about how "Property is theft" no matter what and then told in the last discussion here that somehow Native Americans also own land and that land ownership is a thing (even though it is likely that those early tribes seized said land from some variant of neanderthal). They don't want to have a real discussion about history because despite bemoaning the overall ****tiness of humanity and how bad everyone is, they still want to put the disenfranchised on a moral pedestal when it's convenient in a discussion at the expense of what's actually being discussed (like the intent of traders and merchants who were responsible for the spread of smallpox).

I don't remember anyone talking about native Americans owning land, or putting them on a moral pedestal

Batlord is who I am referring to in this particular case.

Fine, I don't remember the Batlord talking about native Americans owning land, or putting them on a moral pedestal

He implied a few pages ago that my observations about smallpox was just me wanting to "make it okay to sit on this land and not feel guilty". Which implies that somehow this land at any point belongs to humans at all, and none of it does.

He's used the word guilt a few times, but that use of it comes off like saying that black Americans today whose families come from Ghana should just whip themselves every day and abandon their present lifestyles because their ancestors who lived in the Ghana Empire did things like subjugate their neighbors into slavery, and then subsequently contribute to the Arabs and the Portuguese in their establishment the modern slave trade. Sure, they can do that - but you won't get anyone to agree with it and it isn't useful or relevant.

The one point that I agree with Batlord and OH about is that if you really want to change America right now and have the people living today pay their dues...burn it all down. That would be justice for the Native Americans in accordance with their worldviews. And with the way things are going right now, that may just happen. I'm fine with it all burning down of course...but I'm not going to speak for Native Americans living today or all white people, since they likely have a wide range of opinions on the subject. :laughing:

What he said does not imply any of those things, that's just your Speculative Nature. For instance, one can talk about feeling guilty for sitting on land won by massacre, regardless of whom it belonged too. And there is a difference between being properly aware of history and needlessly torturing yourself over it.

What?