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Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892091)
R2D2 went through a spaceship under fire to kill all of those people. He traversed a desert planet on wheels with no real expectation of success to kill those people. He braved the inside of the Death Star to kill those people. Red Squadron just got in some X-Wings. R2D2 was outrageous with the lengths he went to to murder hundreds of thousands of people.

He didn't kill anyone though. He was just there. I'm not an R2 apologist, but this is turning into a witchhunt! :yikes:

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892098)
The R2 Unit was like bin Laden. Everyone else was a hijacker.

That's mechanist. Just cos he looked like a bin....

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892099)
He didn't kill anyone though. He was just there. I'm not an R2 apologist, but this is turning into a witchhunt! :yikes:

Hitler never killed anyone either. Neither did Charlie Manson.

MicShazam 11-08-2017 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892091)
R2D2 went through a spaceship under fire to kill all of those people. He traversed a desert planet on wheels with no real expectation of success to kill those people. He braved the inside of the Death Star to kill those people. Red Squadron just got in some X-Wings. R2D2 was outrageous with the lengths he went to to murder hundreds of thousands of people.

I never thought about how many people must have been on the Death Star before. It was after all supposed to be the size of a small moon or something. We only ever see the military crew, but just imagine the size of the cleaning and catering staff alone!

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892101)
Hitler never killed anyone either. Neither did Charlie Manson.

https://www.spikeybits.com/wp-conten...r2d2-memes.jpg

Neapolitan 11-08-2017 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892093)
Seriously though, as far as I remember, neither of the two droids killed anyone, or if they did, they were individuals. I don't get Batty's point at all. Actually, I never want to get Batty's point. But I don't understand where he's coming fr - you know what? You know what I mean.

R2-D2 was instrumental in taking down the Death Star. He was the mole who was in possession of the stolen data tapes, and he was Luke's co-pilot droid when the Death Star was attacked. R2 was the Bonnie to Luke's Clyde.

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam (Post 1892103)
I never thought about how many people must have been on the Death Star before. It was after all supposed to be the size of a small moon or something. We only ever see the military crew, but just imagine the size of the cleaning and catering staff alone!

What about that poor orchestra??? :yikes:
"This'll be a sweet gig, lads. Governor Tarkin says if he's impressed he'll recommend us to all his Empire friends - WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???!!!! :yikes:

MicShazam 11-08-2017 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892110)
What about that poor orchestra??? :yikes:
"This'll be a sweet gig, lads. Governor Tarkin says if he's impressed he'll recommend us to all his Empire friends - WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???!!!! :yikes:

If you're gigging at a secluded place called the Death Star, you can't say there weren't any omens telling you it might be a bad idea.

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam (Post 1892115)
If you're gigging at a secluded place called the Death Star, you can't say there weren't any omens telling you it might be a bad idea.

But it's the best place to meet Super Troopers.

Frownland 11-08-2017 05:38 PM

I wish I was old enough to bitch about how much better it was before everyone and their mother decided to geek out on Star Wars.

The Batlord 11-08-2017 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892099)
He didn't kill anyone though. He was just there. I'm not an R2 apologist, but this is turning into a witchhunt! :yikes:

You're a simple minded cretin. R2 provided the means to kill those people and without them those pilots would have been helpless. And he wasn't just along for the ride as a mindless robot, he was the impetus for the entire movie and went to ridiculous lengths to complete his mission. Considering that he was a slow, tri-wheeled droid I think the amount of effort he put into killing all of those people on the Death Star outpaced anyone else in that movie.

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892121)
I wish I was old enough to bitch about how much better it was before everyone and their mother decided to geek out on Star Wars.

No you don't.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892124)
You're a simple minded cretin. R2 provided the means to kill those people and without them those pilots would have been helpless. And he wasn't just along for the ride as a mindless robot, he was the impetus for the entire movie and went to ridiculous lengths to complete his mission. Considering that he was a slow, tri-wheeled droid I think the amount of effort he put into killing all of those people on the Death Star outpaced anyone else in that movie.

As opposed to a cretin with a really complex mind?
Are you talking about the plans? That was Leia, so if that's your point then she's the mass-murderer. Still, they did blow up her planet. Hey, was that the biggest blow job in all history or what? :laughing:

Neapolitan 11-08-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892121)
I wish I was old enough to bitch about how much better it was before everyone and their mother decided to geek out on Star Wars.

You had a good sixteen year gap between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace. Oh how they were the halcyon days for Frownland.

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892121)
I wish I was old enough to bitch about how much better it was before everyone and their mother decided to geek out on Star Wars.

You’d have to have been born before the first one came out. People went ape**** for it the day it was released and haven’t calmed down since.

Frownland 11-08-2017 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892132)
You’d have to have been born before the first one came out. People went ape**** for it the day it was released and haven’t calmed down since.

I hate my country's culture.

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892138)
I hate my country's culture.

It is a ****ing ****hole.

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:53 PM

Thing is, R2 was (wait for it) a robot and he was (wait for it again) programmed to do everything he did. So there was no personal emotion, decision or action attached to anything he did. He and C3P0 were merely following their programming. They were tools (well, 3P0 was anyway): would you call Fat Man and Little Boy mass murderers, or should the blame go to Oppenheimer and Truman et al?

Trollheart 11-08-2017 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892132)
You’d have to have been born before the first one came out. People went ape**** for it the day it was released and haven’t calmed down since.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892138)
I hate my country's culture.

#DownWithStarWarsHaters

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892141)
Thing is, R2 was (wait for it) a robot and he was (wait for it again) programmed to do everything he did. So there was no personal emotion, decision or action attached to anything he did. He and C3P0 were merely following their programming. They were tools (well, 3P0 was anyway): would you call Fat Man and Little Boy mass murderers, or should the blame go to Oppenheimer and Truman et al?

AI has no free will but neither does organic life. You have to ignore that.

Frownland 11-08-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892144)
#DownWithStarWarsHaters

I like Star Wars as much as any other shiny action flick but goddamn do you dumb ****s need to hop off of the franchise's dick.

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892146)
I like Star Wars as much as any other shiny action flick but goddamn do you dumb ****s need to hop off of the franchise's dick.

Too many Ewoks.

The Batlord 11-08-2017 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892141)
Thing is, R2 was (wait for it) a robot and he was (wait for it again) programmed to do everything he did. So there was no personal emotion, decision or action attached to anything he did. He and C3P0 were merely following their programming. They were tools (well, 3P0 was anyway): would you call Fat Man and Little Boy mass murderers, or should the blame go to Oppenheimer and Truman et al?

That's idiotic. The two droids were clearly meant to have agency of their own. C3P0 less so, but R2D2 was clearly meant to be a completely conscious character with a personality. If you couldn't get that then you just don't understand human beings and how they operate. You're just an autistic monster who shouldn't be trusted with the emotional development of a goldfish. It wasn't even subtle. C3P0 was hinted at not being entirely not a robot, but R2D2 was completely obviously the legal definition of a person.

Stephen 11-08-2017 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1891736)
8. The only way to take photographs was with a real camera, and you had to have some sort of half-decent knowledge to be able to use one.

You could only take maybe 30 photos before changing film and you had to wait a week to see if they turned out.

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 06:57 PM

I hate people who think they’re good at taking pictures and don’t use film though.

Frownland 11-08-2017 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892180)
I hate people who think they’re good at taking pictures and don’t use film though.

Classist as ****.

Trollheart 11-08-2017 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892145)
AI has no free will but neither does organic life. You have to ignore that.

#Deep
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892146)
I like Star Wars as much as any other shiny action flick but goddamn do you dumb ****s need to hop off of the franchise's dick.

Nah, I like the first three movies but I wouldn't really class myself as a major fanboy. I keep that **** for Star Trek.
Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892154)
Too many Ewoks.

One Ewok is too many.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892167)
That's idiotic. The two droids were clearly meant to have agency of their own. C3P0 less so, but R2D2 was clearly meant to be a completely conscious character with a personality. If you couldn't get that then you just don't understand human beings and how they operate. You're just an autistic monster who shouldn't be trusted with the emotional development of a goldfish. It wasn't even subtle. C3P0 was hinted at not being entirely not a robot, but R2D2 was completely obviously the legal definition of a person.

Clearly trolling, but anyway...

You're the idiot. You've fallen into the trap of thinking of R2 as a person, when he clearly was not. He was programmed, first by Leia to find Kenobi, then either by him or else maybe as a backup program to go to the DS with him. After that, maybe Luke reprogrammed him or the Alliance did, but it was always a program he was following. He had no will of his own. Just because he beeped and made funny noises and looked cute didn't make him a person. You can't hold a machine responsible for the lives it's used to take, unless you want to accuse the Death Star itself of being a murderer?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1892176)
You could only take maybe 30 photos before changing film and you had to wait a week to see if they turned out.

36 on a roll I believe, maybe 24. Black and white or colour? And yeah, leave the roll in to get it developed, unless you were one of those clever ****s who had your own darkroom. I wasn't. And don't forget being careful to take it out without exposing the film. Oh, and rolling the film back before you opened the back of the camera, too.
Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1892180)
I hate people who think they’re good at taking pictures and don’t use film though.

I was not a good photographer. I tried, I was okay but nothing special.

OccultHawk 11-08-2017 07:58 PM

Me neither.

The Batlord 11-08-2017 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892214)
You're the idiot. You've fallen into the trap of thinking of R2 as a person, when he clearly was not. He was programmed, first by Leia to find Kenobi, then either by him or else maybe as a backup program to go to the DS with him. After that, maybe Luke reprogrammed him or the Alliance did, but it was always a program he was following. He had no will of his own. Just because he beeped and made funny noises and looked cute didn't make him a person. You can't hold a machine responsible for the lives it's used to take, unless you want to accuse the Death Star itself of being a murderer?

You're an idiot. George Lucas has never been some hard sci-fi mastermind. He made what seemed good and pleasant and likeable, and a robot with a personality was likeable. That's R2. That's all he is. He's a robot with a personality the same as any character and was given more of a personality than many of the human characters because he was so meant to have a personality that Lucas went extra out of his way to give him one. He has agency because Lucas wanted him to have it so kids would have fun listening to him beep and boop.

Neapolitan 11-08-2017 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892225)
You're an idiot. George Lucas has never been some hard sci-fi mastermind. He made what seemed good and pleasant and likeable, and a robot with a personality was likeable. That's R2. That's all he is. He's a robot with a personality the same as any character and was given more of a personality than many of the human characters because he was so meant to have a personality that Lucas went extra out of his way to give him one. He has agency because Lucas wanted him to have it so kids would have fun listening to him beep and boop.

Don't forget that Anakin Skywalker's Midichlorian count was off the charts so he could had easily programmed C-3PO with A.I. if he want to - just saying.

It would have been great if Lucas did a "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead" version of Star Wars with C-3PO & R2-D2 as the main characters and Luke, Hans and Leia Organa et al as minor characters.

Lucem Ferre 11-09-2017 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892146)
I like Star Wars as much as any other shiny action flick but goddamn do you dumb ****s need to hop off of the franchise's dick.

It's definitely overrated. It's a bit goofy but I think that goofiness is what appeals to it's fans.

Trollheart 11-09-2017 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1892225)
You're an idiot. George Lucas has never been some hard sci-fi mastermind. He made what seemed good and pleasant and likeable, and a robot with a personality was likeable. That's R2. That's all he is. He's a robot with a personality the same as any character and was given more of a personality than many of the human characters because he was so meant to have a personality that Lucas went extra out of his way to give him one. He has agency because Lucas wanted him to have it so kids would have fun listening to him beep and boop.

I'll make one last attempt to get through your blinkered vision here. I never said he had no personality. But he has no FREE WILL. Look at it this way: Data is an android, not a robot (R2 is referred to as a droid, short for android, but he's not really: 3P0 is, but R2 is basically a utility robot and no more). Now, if Data took the Enterprise to the Neutral Zone and killed a bunch of Romulans, would you call Data a killer? Sure: cos Data can reason for himself, think about things, do things on his own and doesn't follow any programme. If TOLD to kill innocents, even by his captain, Data could raise an objection if he thought it was wrong, or even refuse to carry out the order. He could not (so far as I know anyway) be forced to do so.

R2, in the same situation, properly programmed, would kill anyone he was told to. He (it I should say really, but let's not shatter your preconceived illusion here too much; I know you're a fragile flower) would not be able to refuse, raise objections, or think it was wrong, because he is a MACHINE, a robot built to carry out certain tasks. Sure, he may seem cute and the beeps make him seem human, and Lucas engendered a sort of friendship between him and C3P0, but it's illusory. R2 could easily have his memory wiped and forget all about the golden guy, or his mission. He's a tool. You may as well call an AT-AT a murderer.

I know you like him, and WANT him to be a reasoning, thinking being but he ain't, and so to try to ascribe responsibility to him for any killing he may have done is ludicrious. He's the equivalent of a space tank, or any other weapon. He has personality, but no self-determination and he definitely is not sentient. When not doing what he's been programmed to do, R2 likely sits in a corner beeping to himself, waiting for new orders. He's not down the local with other droids, bragging about how many Stormtroopers he killed, and how he hates the Empire. He doesn't: he can't. He's literally just a machine, a tool, and nothing more.

Good troll though. Well done.

Think we could get back on topic now?

Frownland 11-09-2017 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892281)
I'll make one last attempt to get through your blinkered vision here. I never said he had no personality. But he has no FREE WILL. Look at it this way: Data is an android, not a robot (R2 is referred to as a droid, short for android, but he's not really: 3P0 is, but R2 is basically a utility robot and no more). Now, if Data took the Enterprise to the Neutral Zone and killed a bunch of Romulans, would you call Data a killer? Sure: cos Data can reason for himself, think about things, do things on his own and doesn't follow any programme. If TOLD to kill innocents, even by his captain, Data could raise an objection if he thought it was wrong, or even refuse to carry out the order. He could not (so far as I know anyway) be forced to do so.

R2, in the same situation, properly programmed, would kill anyone he was told to. He (it I should say really, but let's not shatter your preconceived illusion here too much; I know you're a fragile flower) would not be able to refuse, raise objections, or think it was wrong, because he is a MACHINE, a robot built to carry out certain tasks. Sure, he may seem cute and the beeps make him seem human, and Lucas engendered a sort of friendship between him and C3P0, but it's illusory. R2 could easily have his memory wiped and forget all about the golden guy, or his mission. He's a tool. You may as well call an AT-AT a murderer.

I know you like him, and WANT him to be a reasoning, thinking being but he ain't, and so to try to ascribe responsibility to him for any killing he may have done is ludicrious. He's the equivalent of a space tank, or any other weapon. He has personality, but no self-determination and he definitely is not sentient. When not doing what he's been programmed to do, R2 likely sits in a corner beeping to himself, waiting for new orders. He's not down the local with other droids, bragging about how many Stormtroopers he killed, and how he hates the Empire. He doesn't: he can't. He's literally just a machine, a tool, and nothing more.

Good troll though. Well done.

Think we could get back on topic now?

This is a movie where spaceships fly faster than light speed without hitting anything.

Plankton 11-09-2017 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892121)
I wish I was old enough to bitch about how much better it was before everyone and their mother decided to geek out on Star Wars.

Every one was geeking out on Rocky and drinking raw eggs for breakfast. Smokey and the Bandit even had a short run before being smothered by the SW behemoth. Turbulent times.

OccultHawk 11-09-2017 08:35 AM

Smokey and the Bandit was fantastic. I could walk to the theater and saw it like 8 nights in a row. I met a girl at the theater and got one of my first real kisses at Smokey and the Bandit.

Trollheart 11-09-2017 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892302)
This is a movie where spaceships fly faster than light speed without hitting anything.

That happens in nearly every sci-fi movie/franchise. Not sure what your point is here?

Frownland 11-09-2017 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892369)
That happens in nearly every sci-fi movie/franchise. Not sure what your point is here?

My point is that it's not a franchise that holds scientific accuracy above plot devices.

Trollheart 11-09-2017 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892371)
My point is that it's not a franchise that holds scientific accuracy above plot devices.

It's not, that's true. Batty's theory is still, as you would say, whack, but hell I don't care. Let him think that way if he wants. Ain't gonna bother me. I've had my say.

Frownland 11-09-2017 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892373)
It's not, that's true. Batty's theory is still, as you would say, whack, but hell I don't care. Let him think that way if he wants. Ain't gonna bother me. I've had my say.

Yours is equally as whack, since your justifications are based on what we would experience on earth (and Star Trek too I guess), which isn't relevant to the franchise.

Trollheart 11-09-2017 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1892375)
Yours is equally as whack, since your justifications are based on what we would experience on earth (and Star Trek too I guess), which isn't relevant to the franchise.

If you say so. Mine's based on logic, his on being a child, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Frownland 11-09-2017 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1892393)
If you say so. Mine's based on logic, his on being a child, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Your stance on a fictional film about a technologically advanced society with many scientific inaccuracies or impossibilities is based on logic derived from earth based technology and real-world expectations. That's retarded.


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