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-   -   The Jamal Khashoggi case (https://www.musicbanter.com/lounge/92649-jamal-khashoggi-case.html)

adidasss 10-18-2018 02:17 AM

The Jamal Khashoggi case
 
It has been mentioned here already but considering that it is one of the biggest ongoing stories of this year, it could be useful to have a separate thread dedicated to it.

I myself am totally fascinated by all of this. Not so much because of what [probably] happened, as grizzly as it apparently was, since horrible things happen to people all the time, but just by the sheer arrogance of how it happened.

Saudi Arabia, because the rest of the world led it to believe this, was under the impression that they could literally do whatever they wanted, with impunity, including kidnapping and murdering a prominent critic in their own embassy [supposedly yeah].

But what is more surprising to me right now is that the collective powers that be haven't managed to effectively cover up this situation, which is what I presume happens normally in cases like this.

There is so much at stake here, and the situation is so complicated, it's difficult to unravel:

1) Why is Turkey allowing the details from the investigation to surface? Isn't it in their interest to continue shmoozing with the Saudis? They don't seem clear about it themselves, first they blow up the story, now they seem to be much more reticent.

2) If the full details of what happened do come out, and the evidence points to Riyadh, is the US (and Europe) willing to sacrifice all of those lucrative oil and weapons deals for one man?

3) Why this man? As was correctly pointed out by the Guardian, Saudi Arabia has done many terrible things in the past few decades, just recently they blew up a truck load of children in Yemen and are driving more than 15 million people to the brink of starvation, what's different now?

4) If the Saudis wanted this man dead, why on earth wait for him to come to the embassy where it's much harder to cover up your tracks? Why not just murder him in his house, on his way to somewhere, what was the reason? Sloppiness or a message (that ended up backfiring)?

Bonus question: Will there ever be a point in our lives when Saudi Arabia is going to fall out of favor of the West and be treated in the same way as Iran and North Korea (as they rightfully should)?

Janszoon 10-18-2018 02:40 AM

I’ve been on vacation and not following news so I just got caught up on this. Very disturbing stuff, though, sadly, not surprising.

[MERIT] 10-18-2018 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 2005986)
1) Why is Turkey allowing the details from the investigation to surface? Isn't it in their interest to continue shmoozing with the Saudis? They don't seem clear about it themselves, first they blow up the story, now they seem to be much more reticent.

The Turks don't like the Saudis, who are in bed with Zionist Israel, The Crown and capitalist America. Also, Turkey doesn't have to rely on the Saudis for their oil, they get it from Syria and Iraq. Turkey isn't pussy-whipped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 2005986)
2) If the full details of what happened do come out, and the evidence points to Riyadh, is the US (and Europe) willing to sacrifice all of those lucrative oil and weapons deals for one man?

Nope. They will play lip service by throwing softball sanctions at Saudi Arabia, which will be offset by backdoor cash to make up for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 2005986)
3) Why this man? As was correctly pointed out by the Guardian, Saudi Arabia has done many terrible things in the past few decades, just recently they blew up a truck load of children in Yemen and are driving more than 15 million people to the brink of starvation, what's different now?

I'm not sure of the specifics, but he was outspoken against the House of Saud, and they got uber butt-hurt about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 2005986)
4) If the Saudis wanted this man dead, why on earth wait for him to come to the embassy where it's much harder to cover up your tracks? Why not just murder him in his house, on his way to somewhere, what was the reason? Sloppiness or a message (that ended up backfiring)?

I'm guessing that he knew that he was targeted and so did others, so any mysterious death would automatically be deemed foul play. The Saudis probably thought that they could cover it up and get away with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 2005986)
Bonus question: Will there ever be a point in our lives when Saudi Arabia is going to fall out of favor of the West and be treated in the same way as Iran and North Korea (as they rightfully should)?

Not in our lifetime. It's one big club [The Saudis, Bushes, Israel, The Crown] and we're not in it.

grindy 10-18-2018 03:51 AM

If they have their backs against their wall, the Saudis will tell that some of their operatives got a bit overzealous and did it out of their own initiative, without the rulers' knowledge. Then there'll be some kind of show trial for a few of them, the west will grumble a bit and then continue sucking the Saudis' dick like good girl. Case closed.

Janszoon 10-18-2018 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 2005989)
If they have their backs against their wall, the Saudis will tell that some of their operatives got a bit overzealous and did it out of their own initiative, without the rulers' knowledge. Then there'll be some kind of show trial for a few of them, the west will grumble a bit and then continue sucking the Saudis' dick like good girl. Case closed.

That’s already happening. My country’s strongman leader appears to be first in line to perform fellatio.

adidasss 10-18-2018 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 2005989)
If they have their backs against their wall, the Saudis will tell that some of their operatives got a bit overzealous and did it out of their own initiative, without the rulers' knowledge. Then there'll be some kind of show trial for a few of them, the west will grumble a bit and then continue sucking the Saudis' dick like good girl. Case closed.

Difficult to argue at this point since their official stance is that Khashoggi left the embassy and disappeared after that. If the ambassador was aware of what was happening, he could and should have reported it. The more they deny any knowledge of what happened, the deeper they get. The more time passes, the more difficult it is to claim the Royal family was not involved.

Another factor I forgot to mention was that, considering the amount of detail that's emerging, it's clear the Embassy was wiretapped. So information is leaking but Turkey can't outright disclose it since that would mean admitting wiretapping a foreign embassy.

The plot couldn't get much thicker.

OccultHawk 10-18-2018 07:36 AM

Trump already put his social media tag on this: Rogue Killers

Here’s what you need to know:

*Saudi Arabia will continue to fuel America
*The relationship will not change
*The American people will forget shortly
*Saudi royalty will continue to do as they please
*Saudi Arabia will continue to be one of the most oppressive societies in the world
*America will continue to be the greediest country in the world
*The truth will continue to be irrelevant


You can learn the details or not. Demand justice or not. Protest or not. Vote or not. Nothing you do is going to matter.

Accuse me of acting like an angst-ridden teenager all you want. The truth remains that it doesn’t matter if you care about this.

DwnWthVwls 10-18-2018 07:40 AM

I think you enjoy being dense.

adidasss 10-18-2018 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2006000)
Trump already put his social media tag on this: Rogue Killers

Here’s what you need to know:

*Saudi Arabia will continue to fuel America
*The relationship will not change
*The American people will forget shortly
*Saudi royalty will continue to do as they please
*Saudi Arabia will continue to be one of the most oppressive societies in the world
*America will continue to be the greediest country in the world
*The truth will continue to be irrelevant


You can learn the details or not. Demand justice or not. Protest or not. Vote or not. Nothing you do is going to matter.

Accuse me of acting like an angst-ridden teenager all you want. The truth remains that it doesn’t matter if you care about this.

Isn't there something about a representative democracy, especially the american one, where the constituents can get in touch with their representatives or civil rights pressure groups which could influence members of the parliament/congress to re-evaluate the status-quo? Lindsey Graham for example isn't toeing the line. Why not others? :occasional optimist:

The Batlord 10-18-2018 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 2006001)
I think you enjoy being dense.

I think you still agree with that analysis.


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