Prog Out With Your .. It's Prog Rock Week!
 

Yes!

Most of you by far know what prog rock is. For those who don't, prog rock evolved from psychedelic rock in the late 60s and blossomed in the early 70s. As a genre name, 'prog rock', like 'indie rock' or 'alternative rock' does a poor job of describing the sound of the bands back then. King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Camel, Gentle Giant, Yes, Genesis, Emerson, Lake & Palmer .. aside from being rock bands with a rock instrumentation (more or less, though more often more), these bands didn't always sound alike, but they had a few things in common, such as instrumental excellence and use of untraditional time signatures. The great somewhat unifying idea, however, was to take rock music to new places and elevate it to a higher art form, for example by creating long rock suites similar in build to the classical composers of the past.

After a brief few years of mainstream popularity in the 70s, prog rock's popularity was thoroughly crushed by the emergence of punk which had the complete opposite aesthetic ideal, really simple songs played by people who think that anger and attitude is a valid substitute for musical skill. Into the 80s, many thought of "prog" as a four-letter word, but by the 90s, it's popularity resurfaced and possibly still is increasing today.

Some criticize prog for being difficult, long winded, pretentious and hard to connect with. However, those who enjoy prog are aware that the most rewarding works of art are not always the ones which are the simplest or easiest to "get". Prog rock's magical themes, variety and complexity holds a special place in the heart of more than a few of us here.

If you have not delved into this genre, now's the time. Cause it's prog rock week!

Gentle Giant's been my favourite prog band for a while, so here's a video of them playing their brilliant song Funny Ways which is found on their self-titled debut from 1970 :)

I always liked Jethro Tull for their Celtic influences. In the 1969 video of Back to Family, Ian Anderson proves my theory that he was the inventor of the grunge look. You'd think it was Eddie Vedder singing except for the tight camera shots of his face.

^Brilliant Jethro Tull song and video :)

By the way, since you mention grunge .. As all prog heads already know, Kurt Cobain cited King Crimson's 1974 album Red as a major influence on his music. The title track from that album is a beast of a song. It's sophisticated and intelligent, yet loud, a bit scary and perhaps even a bit ugly in parts. Of course, it is also 100% brilliant!

Actually, this isn't completely true - it's just what proggers want you to think in order that you perceive the genre as "higher" than other musical genres.

Not all proggers were instrumentally "excellent" - Rick Wakeman was no higher than grade 5 or 6 piano, and if you listen to what he played, it was mostly overblown tripe, unlike genuinely great keyboard players like Emerson.

Where is the "excellence" in Uriah Heep", I ask you?

I don't mean to belittle these fine rock musicians - some, like every member of Gentle Giant, were stupidly talented and created astonishing music - but that's all most of them were. Pretentious rock musicians with commendably high ideals.

The use of "untraditional time signatures" wasn't particularly widespread either - for example, the great epic "Suppers' Ready" includes one single 3 minute section in something approaching an unusual time signature, and that's only for rhythmic effect.

It's not even "An Apocalypse in 9/8" as the title would have us think - it's in 9/4.

The core of what I'm saying is that these were not the unifying principles - ideals, possibly, but as generalisations go, these are not accurate ones!

Again, you could have stuck to the first part of the statement, and it would have been fine.

"New Places" yes.

"Higher art form" not necessarily.

"Long Rock Suites", well, apart from Yes's quasi-symphonic meanderings, a piss-take album by Jethro Tull, and the occasional (and I mean occasional) side-long song - possibly one or two per band - this wasn't the norm, even though it might have felt like it in the live environment.

Often, these were the same people. For example, at least two of The Sex Pistols.

A 3rd, John Lydon, is known to be a huge fan of Peter Hammill (lead singer of Prog dinosaurs Van Der Graaf Generator).

The Stranglers were closer to prog than punk, musically - and so it goes on.

This myth that punk killed prog is put about by proggers looking for a target, when all along, Prog was the victim of its own success - it started believing that it was invincible in the mighty tides of the sea of pop music (Prog is only a form of pop music - sorry).

It's a fair cop.

See?

Hear, hear!

Although I do not look at (or listen to) Prog with rose-tinted headphones, I enjoy it.

It's a great form of rock music - or rather, a great approach to rock music that arose through the Progressive music traditions set by Stan Kenton in 1947 (and possibly avant-garde composers that preceeded him) and brought together many, many genres of music into a morass of sound that hasn't been equalled since.

Recommended listening;

"Thick as a Brick" - Jethro Tull
"Nursery Cryme" - Genesis
"In The Court of the Crimson King" - King Crimson
"Ars Longa Vita Longa" - The Nice
"You" - Gong
"Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh" - Magma
"Saucerful of Secrets" - Pink Floyd
"Mirage" - Camel
"The Rotter's Club" - Hatfield and the North
"Ommadawn" - Mike Oldfield
"Space Ritual" - Hawkwind

Thank you for picking apart everything I wrote.

I didn't write that every song put out by a prog band has to be stupidly long. I love Gentle Giant, but I don't think I've ever heard a song from them which was over 10 minutes long. Also, I don't really mean that every prog song has to have untraditional time signatures. How many songs do Pink Floyd have with untraditional time signatures? Only one immediately comes to mind, Money. The point is they did it at some point - I believe all the early big names of the genre did, so why not point it out as something they had in common?

About the instrumental excellence, well, you may not rank Wakeman very high, but we both know that prog is full of people known for their skills with instruments. Instrumental skill does not have the same importance in other genres like f.ex goth rock or new wave. You even mention that Emerson and the guys from Gentle Giant were skilled, so what's the beef? It seems you're really just want to point out that there are exceptions to the rule. Well, yes, I know that - it's usually how it goes with "rules". If I knew the post was going to be scrutinized and so misinterpreted by you, I would have added more "often", "usually" and "sometimes" to the post. Maybe then it would've been more to your satisfaction. ;)

Just what killed prog, okay, maybe it tripped in it's own feet, but I'm sure guys like this and their music also had some influence on how the average music consumer of the late 70s and early 80s viewed the genre.

http://www.pinkfloydonline.com/johnnyrotten.jpg

i am in no way a huge fan of prog music....although i really did enjoy the 10 song mix you made Tore...of Gentle Giant....one band that i have to say i love that i'm pretty sure falls in the prog genre is Marillion...but i really only like the early stuff when Fish (he has such a great voice) was still the frontman.....espicially Script For Jester's Tear and Misplaced Childhood...and honestly i think their live album The Thieving Magpie is my second favorite live album ever...bested only by Depeche Mode's perfect 101...think i'll throw it on now in celebration


^epic!

Here we go!

Oh, and punks don't kill prog, ridiculous entries do.

You know, I gotta admit I find genres like Prog-Rock and Post-Rock tres confusing. But Explosions in the Sky does make some really interesting music in the Post-Rock genre. Check out "All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone" on iTunes for like $5.99. Music to study music by.

Cool beans.

Why are we debating an arguing in the "genre of the week" thread"? I don't know if it's a rule or not, but I find it very rude to the spirit of the thread. It's like calling somebody you hate a "****ing retard" on his or her birthday. Completely uncalled for. There are other threads to bitch about things in.

Now, As for the concept of technical skill. Prog is NOT about technical skill, but requires you to use your technical skill to the fullest. Many people are kind of ignorant on how little technical skill you are required to have in mainstream rock in comparison to genres like classical, or jazz. Prog however throws that concept out the window, and forces an instrumentalist to showcase the really sort of suppressed skill that most rock doesn't allow to develop.

The reason for this however is NOT to show off. Prog is about challenging oneself. It's about making the most difficult music possible so that next time you make music, you have something to push yourself to top. Inherited strongly from Jazz, prog forces an instrumentalist to develop a relationship with his, or her, instrument. Also, though, prog enforces the unit to work together, each of which contributing the fullest of a member's skill to the greater good of the sound as whole.

As for length, **** it, I love lengthy songs. Too many people are pacified with the 3-4 minute radio formula of instant gratification, and mindless hooks on loop. Prog forces the listener to think. Is it more difficult to get through a prog epic? Yes, it is. But saying that's a dent on quality is like saying that The Bearenstein Bears books are superior to Moby **** because they are easier to get through. It's missing out on the real point of what prog is about.

Prog is a genre that typifies man's will to discover himself, and his fullest potential. It's not dead, it can never really be dead. Whether it be in the mainstream or not, it's the spirit of prog that counts, really, and for that reason, this is a week well deserved.

What a great week. This thread might go for pages and pages.

This DVD just came out pretty recently. Loved the album version but this is pretty awesome.

Transatlantic f. Steve Hackett - Return of the Giant Hogweed (Genesis cover)



Portnoy - drums
Morse - keys/vocals
Trewavas - bass
Stolt - guitar

I won't lie; me and prog rock are just never gonna hit it off. Pretty much all of what I've heard of it I haven't really liked.

There are a couple of exceptions though. I love what I've got of Mike Oldfield in my music collection (Tubular Bells I-III and Ommadawn) for example.



^ I think I can level with Oldfield's work more as it takes in a very new age kinda sound, which is something I really dig.

And then there's Camel's Mirage which is just all kinds of awesome;



And I haven't listened to Jethro Tull properly before (if ever), but from this cover...



...and everything I've been told about Thick As a Brick, I guess I might like them.

I'm having a harder time finding a real love for recent prog as 70s music just has a special place in my heart. Although I listen to quite a bit of prog, almost all of it is from that decade.

Anyways, here's a swedish favourite : Samla Mammas Manna and their opening track from 1973 record "Måltid". Pure avant-prog genius :D

A couple of obscure favourites of mine:

Cameltoe!

You're welcome. I enjoy picking apart lengthy discursions, especially about Progressive Rock, and particularly when they paint an inaccurate picture of a genre, which gives the impression that the musicians and fans are completely up their own arses. I do not believe this to be the case, hence my comments.

I won't pick apart your reply, which so completely misses the point that it's just not worth the time - it's the same, generic misunderstandings over and again. It's misinformation that perpetuates this view of Proggers as sad anoraks, and this is what I hope to change.

Let's simplify by saying that your original post paints this generic picture of Prog Rock which isn't very accurate, and I merely corrected the common misconceptions.


What, specifically, is ridiculous about my post?

I think it's perfectly fair comment.

Yours, however, is patently ridiculous - and rather than some lame insult to a guy whose comments you don't understand - this is merely a statement of truth, as my post did not kill prog = fact.

I have not insulted anyone, so I do not believe that I should be a target for insults.

If this is the case, then I'll have to shrug this place off as having become yet another sad music board full of kiddies who think they have their finger on the pulse, but in reality, know nothing except how to troll.

I find this sentence extremely ironic.

Anyway, point is, it's ok to debate people but the way you are debating hurts the thread which is supposed to keep a celebratory tone.

Really?

How - to both?

I find the irony is that Proggers are notorious for arguing about the music - I've been a member of ProgArchives.com for almost 7 years now, and in that time, nothing has changed in this respect - they love to "establish the facts".

The myth that prog 70s came from the posh/welltodo - Progressive Rock Music Forum - Page 1


I rather hoped you'd find that the way I'm debating is healthy and informative because it ousts the old fallacies and misconceptions - I fail to see how that hurts anyone.

Certif1ed, it's very hard to write a very few paragraphs introduction post about prog which is entirely accurate and does justice to a whole genere. I think you would've complained anyway because your comments are nitpicky. For example you mention that use of untraditional time signatures wasn't that widespread. I never wrote that it was. I wrote that it was something they had in common, so that's a nitpick. You write that all prog musicians were not excellent at playing instruments. That's a given. When King Crimson released their debut, it had huge influence on prog. Part of that was because their bar-raising skills at playing. Sure, instrumental excellence may not flavour the sound of every band as much, but was there ever a rock genre before when it had the same amount of importance? If you're sitting here in our time judging what they did then and thinking "Nahh, they're not that good", then you're doing it wrong. Your mind is out of the context of that time. And besides, skill is often treated as something entirely subjective. Many people here write that Yngwie Malmsteen is a **** guitar player, just because they hate his music.

The only way to satisfy a nitpick is generally to let them do it themselves, so if you want to give it a shot, go ahead and do a write-up. I'll exchange it for the one I've written in the OP.

Rishloo is a 2000s prog rock band. Prog archives had them, listed as crossover prog. Whatever... Influenced by Tool, vocalist sounds similar to Mars Volta, Coheed and Cambria, Tool, and his own style.





Porcupine Tree, pretty great 90s era albums...

This is my favorite...



and here's one for you 70s diehards...

Tasavallan Presidentii

A lot of things, I won't make a list though. But in general there was nothing inaccurate at all with tore's description of prog, which he already has pointed out above. Since every word written outside the topic is disrespectful to the thread, I'm gonna keep it short here.

I didn't insult you, I pointed out that your arguments were ridiculous, especially considering where they were posted. If you want me to be more specific you're welcome to PM me or, even better, start a new thread on the topic of what prog rock consists of, 'cos I like to nitpick as well. Not here though.

I've always seen the musical differences in Prog & Punk as a bit like screwing women.

Prog is like the mousy plain girl who's kinky as hell in bed once you get to know her.

Punk is like the stunningly attractive girl that grabs your attention straight away & you might only get a bunk up in the back of a dark alley but you remember it forever.

As the librarian took off her glasses and let her hair down, ELP released "Love beach". (And someone got raped by "Never mind the bollocks").

An early Marillion fan :) :) Friends forever.

I am not a big Genesis fan (and apologies for the easy choice here). Foxtrot (1972) is a superb album in every sense but apart from the odd track or sequence I could never really get into them. The S/T 1980 album had a couple of duff tracks and is dated but the magnificent opening track Mama and the 2 part Home By The Sea are faves of mine.

Yes Phil Collins turned into a moron. Yes it is dad rock, yes it is dated, yes it is cliched but fuck yeah is the second part of Home By The Sea damn good.

I could spout off bands like Fifty Nine Hose or Flied Egg to appear cool but sod it. I like this track and so I post it:

22 of the best minutes of your life:

Tore, I remember you saying you hadn't fallen in love with VdGG. This is one of my favorites. Personally, it strikes me stronger than Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man. And I love that track, and that album. But VdGG's H to He Who Am the Only One really is a 10/10 album as far as I'm concerned. We need to throw it into Prog Album Club. ;)

Yes, and the main thing you get to know is that she has no genitals.

That's why she invented eargasm.

Steve Hillage and Khan, from Space Shanty

I always get down on the jam at the end.

so what are some of people's favorite prog metal bands?

I haven't heard as much as I would like, but my favorite of what I have heard is Between the Buried and Me. especially their last 2 albums. Also Opeth is good, but I haven't listened to them as extensively.

and what about Dream Theater? In terms of the prog genre, I would classify them as one of the most boring among the genre. I still like them and I am a fan, just in terms of prog I don't see them as that innovative. not sure if they qualify as metal either.

Well, I don't know if they qualify as metal but the sure are progressive:

Christian Progressive Power Metal - Harmony

I'm quite surprised tore hasn't posted this one yet:

^Ah, love me some Caravan, particularly songs from plump girls :) Here's some more Canterbury, Hatfield and the North's "Son of 'There's No Home Like Homerton'".

that's brilliant!

How could it not be with an album cover like this:

http://www.dureforsog.com/images/dis...knee_cover.jpg