Very true point. (That I totally overlooked...) :o:

Personally I think we cannot just put a label on something on the basis of a personality trait. I also believe there is no such thing as a rebel who doesn't give a fook, the ones who don't give a fook are the ones who aren't walking around calling themselves rebels. I always thought walking around calling yourself a punk does not qualify you to be one anymore than walking around saying "praise the lord" makes you a preacher, ya know.

While I will say that I think MC5 were a predecessor to punk, and may have given a rise to the ethos of the scene later on, at the time of their release they were not punk. Once a style has been established and has taken on a definitive form, I believe it is easier to look back on what came before and apply that label to something that would have never been thought of like that before. That is where MC5 and even The Stooges fit in, laying the groundwork, but only given the title later on. It is an honorary title given to it in hindsight.

Once we start assigning labels on personality traits, especially one as vague as being rebellious and not caring.. We can start applying it to anything, Johnny Cash, Woody Guthrie, James Dean... and on and on... and now they have all become punks on a technicality, not be achievement or advancing the movement they are now associated with.

Protopunk is something that had some of the traits that Punk developed, but I would not classify them as being part of the Punk scene.

So now it becomes a debate about a Punk vs. a Punk Rocker.

Doesn't mean the other did not have the i dont give a **** attitude. They were great guitarists no dont but they are def not punk.

Greg Sage.

I see what you mean, but I think the groundwork is just as important as the movement itself; it wouldn't have stood up without the foundation, or gone anywhere without fuel. That's why the term Proto is helpful in identifying it as separate but contributing to that said movement.

Listening to the Clash's first album, for example, i personally hear a lot of the Who in the sound; playing as an influence is important to the sound, and thus, making them slightly a part of the movement.

Now, i may be reiterating what you just said, and if i am, i apologize. I do see what you mean, though. (Then again, i've heard a lot of people refer to Johnny Cash as punk country)

BTW: I love the guitar work Husker Du pulls off on stuff like Zen Arcade.

Jim Webber New Bomb Turks

Haha! True this.

/sorryofftopik

I should also mention Mike Palm. I love his guitar playing. Should be mentioned more.



saw them and met him a couple years back, great guy. Really friendly and genuinely good person.

he is an awesome guitarist.

hillel slovak was a god