Music Banter - Why is "Post-Punk" even considered "Punk"?

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- - Why is "Post-Punk" even considered "Punk"? (https://www.musicbanter.com/punk/86426-why-post-punk-even-considered-punk.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716944)

I'm just annoyed because there's this huge amount of punk and someone who hasn't listened to any of it wants to tell me the genre is all power chords and leather jackets

It's treating punk like classic rock

People don't realize that "post punk" is a revisionist term and bands like Suicide actually existed alongside Ramones and the such in the NY scene

You keep claiming someone doesn't listen to punk. Who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1716941)

Ramones are severely overrated. Sex Pistols are better.

they both suck actually but ramones > sex pistols

The lack of appreciation for The Ramones debut album expressed on here is shocking and demonstrative of some sort of retardation. Get help, people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1716974)

The lack of appreciation for The Ramones debut album expressed on here is shocking and demonstrative of some sort of retardation. Get help, people.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Sd42N-FdnOQ/hqdefault.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716944)

Punk was a term created by the music press to refer to a bunch of bands that were just one step on the art rock ladder. If it wasn't for the London scene that blew the whole thing so far out of proportion we might not call punk anything. It would just be the arty rock bands from the mid/late seventies.

I've gone back and forth on what is and what isn't punk, but I think the only thing that makes sense is to apply it to what it was made to be applied to: the Sex Pistols and their contemporaries, and all the bands who jacked their sound like the fad that the punk scene was. Whether that means Television and Wire get called punk too is debatable, but it doesn't really matter anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716948)

In fact legend has it that suicide was the first group to refer to themselves as punks

Suicide came around before even the Ramones or Television, so you could them proto-punk, art rock, or probably more terms that would be more relevant than punk.

Art rock is a dumb term.

What the hell makes a band art rock? I've heard that term applied to so many bands, but i look up the meaning on Wikipedia and it never matches the band the term is being attached to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716993)

We haven't even got into The Clash and how much of these rules set here that they break

Poop on the Clash. Their experimentations were too skindeep to really be breaking any rules. They made some cool music and had a different sound than a lot of their peers, but they get more credit than they deserve just cause they were more high profile than the more experimental bands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716993)

We haven't even got into The Clash and how much of these rules set here that they break

To be considered to be a part of any genre you don't have to meet all the rules. You can break some rules but still follow others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1716996)

I agree with that to a degree

But I think the fact that London Calling is considered an essential Punk album practically proves my point of how loose a genre sound wise punk by itself is

My theory is that the Clash were just successful enough for people who don't listen to punk and who aren't confident enough to question genre classifications to deify London Calling as a classic punk album. Not saying it isn't punk, though I'd call it new wave, but that's just why I think nobody questions it.