Yeah I listen to those bands too, and Pere Ubu are one of, like what, two bands to come out of that scene with any amount of notice? Them and Devo? And no, I don't count the Dead Boys because they're garbage.

And the Contortions were part of a scene nobody probably had any idea about before the internet cause it was so short-lived and unpalatable to pretty much everybody.

Nobody cared about Pere Ubu or the Contortions or Lydia Lunch or whoever, except for a small handful of arty music fans. They launched no movements. The Sex Pistols did. So you can take your No True Scotsman fallacy and cram it. "Properly into punk" is the kind of elitist bull**** that punk either despises or reveres, I'm not sure which.

P.S. You forgot Australia. Can't be a proper snob without name dropping the Saints and Radio Birdman.

But that's the point. Punk didn't really start anywhere. It was a series of tenuously, at best, connected scenes that were all jiving on Iggy Pop and Velvet Underground. If an American scene had the first band then that's really just a technicality, cause the whole **** show that was the punk movement started in Britain.

Lol, your wasting your time with elphenor Batlord, she's not the brightest light in the tool shed. You could argue with her all night and she'll just keep changing the goal posts.

The New York scene would have been confined to the historic dustbins of obscurity if it wasn't for the London punk explosion, and the term punk was not widely used to describe music until Caroline Coon applied it to the British punk scene, and the media ran with it.

Punk is dead and I'm happy it is, because when musical genres stick around to long they begin to suck!!!

I'd jump back into this argument, but I've got better things to do than argue with someone who romanticizes a 40 year old musical genre in 2016. life is short.

The vast majority of bands in almost every genre are obscure.

No one is arguing against this. Punk Rock and it's attitude has to have roots somewhere. It doesn't just pop up out of nowhere.

Point is?

Punk is dead. It's Alive in small pockets, like every music scene, but mostly dead.

Ok elphenor we'll let you live in your own little reality.

Anyone who wants to read my argument can just scroll back.

No. People were denying that CBGB was punk. They weren't denying that punk had roots in CBGB.

People can go back and read my argument we will let you live in your own little world.

No, I was arguing that without the British scene all the other scenes would have fizzled out due to the lack of audience that only existed because of it. Whether or not those bands went platinum is another matter.

I still can't believe elphenor believes punk doesn't have a sound.

It's becoming a pointless argument.