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-   -   Why do Critics give rap albums good reviews? (https://www.musicbanter.com/rap-hip-hop/46291-why-do-critics-give-rap-albums-good-reviews.html)

dark shadow 12-21-2009 01:34 PM

That would seem the logical way to approach the situation, but people aren't logical. There have been psychological and sociological studies done which show that people latch on to the crowd whenever possible. conformity is a natural human reaction. When this is applied to the internet, through the context of anonymous online interaction via message boards as this, when the topic is negative and everyone begins to latch on to why this sucks, flaming and general chaos tends to erupt.

You are right, it is the content of the discussion that matters. However, negative topics tend to devolve far faster than positive ones with people commenting on why they dislike or disagree. Of course, flaming of those with different opinions still can happen, and there are always trolls which throw off the entire equation. Still, negativity in general creates a bad template to begin the topic with, especially in the case of ignorant or biased questions such as this one.

someonecompletelyrandom 12-21-2009 01:51 PM

And that was all I was saying.

Baabaa 12-21-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

I feel critics are almost forcing themselves to give good reviews to rap albums just so they just don't upset that audience.
That's probably the case, yeah...

lieasleep 12-21-2009 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark shadow (Post 788082)
That would seem the logical way to approach the situation, but people aren't logical. There have been psychological and sociological studies done which show that people latch on to the crowd whenever possible. conformity is a natural human reaction. When this is applied to the internet, through the context of anonymous online interaction via message boards as this, when the topic is negative and everyone begins to latch on to why this sucks, flaming and general chaos tends to erupt.

You are right, it is the content of the discussion that matters. However, negative topics tend to devolve far faster than positive ones with people commenting on why they dislike or disagree. Of course, flaming of those with different opinions still can happen, and there are always trolls which throw off the entire equation. Still, negativity in general creates a bad template to begin the topic with, especially in the case of ignorant or biased questions such as this one.

show me these studies and obviously that doesnt apply since, as this thread shows, even when someone attacks a genre, people defends it, and some interesting discussion is even brought up there was no flaming or chaos.

someonecompletelyrandom 12-21-2009 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lieasleep (Post 788188)
show me these studies and obviously that doesnt apply since, as this thread shows, even when someone attacks a genre, people defends it, and some interesting discussion is even brought up there was no flaming or chaos.

Are you calling this thread interesting? Of course if somebody attacks something as general and popular as rap people are going to defend it, that doesn't mean it's not a negetive, pissy, dumb idea for a thread. Summary is as follows.

I hate rap.

Rap isn't bad.

I hate most rap.

Okay then.

This discussion is stupid.

No it aint.

Okay whatever.

Yeah man, you could write a book with that!

TechN9ne 12-21-2009 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave.r2009 (Post 786492)
What can possibly be good about the typical rap album. 18 songs per album(Too much, should be 10-12 tracks) 4-5 filler tracks (skits) and your typical rap lyrics about Clubs,guns,drugs,woman,cars,ghetto's..blah..blah.. blah and add on some commerical beats for airplay. Even the better rappers out there like Lupe Fiasco,K'naan can't produce a anything classic. The only classic rap album I have ever liked was from a group called Camp Lo called "Uptown Saturday Night" in 1996 The beats were enjoyable and there lyrics and slang was very creative, to this day I have trouble understanding what exactly there rapping about in some of there songs.

It's beyond me how some critics can say that Lil Wayne's "Carter 3" is better then the Fleet Foxes album. According to Metacritic Reakwon's new album is in the top 5 and in fact is prop ****.

I feel critics are almost forcing themselves to give good reviews to rap albums just so they just don't upset that audience.

I feel that some of this is just hype, and tend not to care much for what 'critics' say because of exactly what you pointed out. I'm not much of a mainstream listener.

Another point here is that most critics that I see write about rap give it a bad rep. At least the rap I listen to, such as Tech N9ne, Eminem, etc., so it's not 'all' critics.

dark shadow 12-21-2009 11:38 PM

Solomon Asch study social pressure conformity experiment psychology

Imagine yourself in the following situation: You sign up for a psychology experiment, and on a specified date you and seven others whom you think are also subjects arrive and are seated at a table in a small room. You don't know it at the time, but the others are actually associates of the experimenter, and their behavior has been carefully scripted. You're the only real subject.

The experimenter arrives and tells you that the study in which you are about to participate concerns people's visual judgments. She places two cards before you. The card on the left contains one vertical line. The card on the right displays three lines of varying length.

The experimenter asks all of you, one at a time, to choose which of the three lines on the right card matches the length of the line on the left card. The task is repeated several times with different cards. On some occasions the other "subjects" unanimously choose the wrong line. It is clear to you that they are wrong, but they have all given the same answer.

What would you do? Would you go along with the majority opinion, or would you "stick to your guns" and trust your own eyes?

In 1951 social psychologist Solomon Asch devised this experiment to examine the extent to which pressure from other people could affect one's perceptions. In total, about one third of the subjects who were placed in this situation went along with the clearly erroneous majority.

Asch showed bars like those in the Figure to college students in groups of 8 to 10. He told them he was studying visual perception and that their task was to decide which of the bars on the right was the same length as the one on the left. As you can see, the task is simple, and the correct answer is obvious. Asch asked the students to give their answers aloud. He repeated the procedure with 18 sets of bars. Only one student in each group was a real subject. All the others were confederates who had been instructed to give incorrect answers on 12 of the 18 trials. Asch arranged for the real subject to be the next-to-the-last person in each group to announce his answer so that he would hear most of the confederates incorrect responses before giving his own. Would he go along with the crowd?

To Asch's surprise, 37 of the 50 subjects conformed to the majority at least once, and 14 of them conformed on more than 6 of the 12 trials. When faced with a unanimous wrong answer by the other group members, the mean subject conformed on 4 of the 12 trials. Asch was disturbed by these results: "The tendency to conformity in our society is so strong that reasonably intelligent and well-meaning young people are willing to call white black. This is a matter of concern. It raises questions about our ways of education and about the values that guide our conduct."

Why did the subjects conform so readily? When they were interviewed after the experiment, most of them said that they did not really believe their conforming answers, but had gone along with the group for fear of being ridiculed or thought "peculiar." A few of them said that they really did believe the group's answers were correct.

Asch conducted a revised version of his experiment to find out whether the subjects truly did not believe their incorrect answers. When they were permitted to write down their answers after hearing the answers of others, their level of conformity declined to about one third what it had been in the original experiment.

Apparently, people conform for two main reasons: because they want to be liked by the group and because they believe the group is better informed than they are. Suppose you go to a fancy dinner party and notice to your dismay that there are four forks beside your plate. When the first course arrives, you are not sure which fork to use. If you are like most people, you look around and use the fork everyone else is using. You do this because you want to be accepted by the group and because you assume the others know more about table etiquette than you do.

lieasleep 12-22-2009 10:53 AM

well, conan, we have discussion of good rappers and what makes good rap, discussion of rap content, dark shadow is throwing sociological studies at me, i'd say its pretty interesting, the only thing making this thread really bad is you, its not the best thread, but once again, no one is making you read it, why not spend your time on what YOU consider an acceptable thread?

Meph1986 12-22-2009 11:14 AM

Easy, because they like it.

:usehead:

someonecompletelyrandom 12-22-2009 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lieasleep (Post 788440)
well, conan, we have discussion of good rappers and what makes good rap, discussion of rap content, dark shadow is throwing sociological studies at me, i'd say its pretty interesting, the only thing making this thread really bad is you, its not the best thread, but once again, no one is making you read it, why not spend your time on what YOU consider an acceptable thread?

Haha, alright what ever enjoy it. :o:

lieasleep 12-22-2009 11:44 AM

....yeah....so.....ghostface killah, **** that guy!

someonecompletelyrandom 12-22-2009 11:44 AM

Why? You better be careful about what you say. Wu-Tang Clan aint nothin to mess wit. And we do already have a thread about bad rappers, I think. From the OP this doesn't really seem like a discussion as to what makes, doesn't make a good rapepr but more of a stab at rap in general.

Surell 12-22-2009 12:40 PM

How can you down on Ghostface?

lieasleep 12-22-2009 12:54 PM

just dont think his music is any good, especially compared to other wu-tang members. it was more meant to start up conversation

someonecompletelyrandom 12-22-2009 01:09 PM

Post it in this one.

Jester 12-22-2009 06:20 PM

I don't know if he's saying Ghostface should be in a top 3 worst rappers thread.

Anyway, what don't you like about Ghostface Killah's music, lieasleep? He's probably one of my favorite Wu-Tang members. He's one of the most consistent, his voice is cool, his delivery is full of energetic youth, and his imagery can be pretty fantastic. I can see how he might not be someone's favorite Wu-Tang member (he's the least Wu-y, really), but I don't really see how he's not likeable.

dark shadow 12-22-2009 09:49 PM

i kinda think this thread has been derailed a bit, hasnt it?
"why do critics give rap albums good reviews?"
oops.

On Topic:
Lil Wayne's yet to be released "Rebirth" album, which is actually mostly autotuned rock music, has been getting fairly positive reviews it may or may not deserve at this point.

Mick 12-22-2009 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome (Post 786530)
Probably because they themselves have been dumbed down and now enjoy that kind of music.

Also because a lot of record companies have shares with certain magazines and news corporations so they have more of a hand in what reviews their artists get than people would like to think.

Exactly what I was going to say :)

But the majority of music critics aren't musicians themselves so I don't trust them, when I buy an album, I make my own review.

midnight rain 12-22-2009 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave.r2009 (Post 786492)
What can possibly be good about the typical rap album. 18 songs per album(Too much, should be 10-12 tracks) 4-5 filler tracks (skits) and your typical rap lyrics about Clubs,guns,drugs,woman,cars,ghetto's..blah..blah.. blah and add on some commerical beats for airplay. Even the better rappers out there like Lupe Fiasco,K'naan can't produce a anything classic. The only classic rap album I have ever liked was from a group called Camp Lo called "Uptown Saturday Night" in 1996 The beats were enjoyable and there lyrics and slang was very creative, to this day I have trouble understanding what exactly there rapping about in some of there songs.

It's beyond me how some critics can say that Lil Wayne's "Carter 3" is better then the Fleet Foxes album. According to Metacritic Reakwon's new album is in the top 5 and in fact is prop ****.

I feel critics are almost forcing themselves to give good reviews to rap albums just so they just don't upset that audience.

Have you ever felt that maybe that people can have differing opinions from yours?

Also, I don't see why rap is always berated for it's gangbang lyrics when the classic rock that these rap haters usually listen to contains plenty of sexual references (not to mention half the songs seem to be about one night stands) and drugs & alcohol in general. Just something I thought I'd point out.

Mick 12-23-2009 12:04 AM

Yes but somehow rappers make it sound more badass. :)

OceanAndSilence 12-23-2009 01:35 AM

i like roots manuva

am i black?


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