Well, I guess you just have a more restrictive idea of what constitutes hip hop then. Most people on here would certainly consider all of the stuff I listed to be hip hop.

I would even go as far as to say that....most of what you listed would go under alternative hip hop if anything but it's not pure hip hop

So who would you describe as pure hip hop? And what are the defining characteristics of it?

exactly Matious...thank you

I would agree with that. But according to djchameleon's take on it this would be funk with people rapping over it, not hip hop.

yes I see the flaw in my definition...I'll have to revise it some.

Hip Hop to me is more about the fundamentals....Dj'ing, turn tables, party type songs everything that is being exhibited in that video. It isn't limited to party tracks though. Hip Hop extends to gangsta, hardcore and heavy bass tracks as well.

great sampling here

this is hip hop to me





i think you get my point now with these examples.

I think my initial post was misunderstood anyway. I didn't mean simply the backing music, but the genre itself - which is defined primarily by it's center, the vocal technique of rapping. But there's more to hip hop than rapping. You wouldn't call that Dylan song posted earlier hip hop would you? It's an asthetic and culture yes, but it also has a sound that makes it distinct from other styles of music which incorporate rapping, as was brought out.

Sampling is one defining characteristic, which is likely why the genre is so varied to begin with...

There are others too but I'm on my iPhone abd typing on it sucks haha.

Well for the record, yeah, I would describe the Louis Jordan song as jazz basically because jazz is the framework within which he played. At the same time though I certainly think it's fair to describe it as a notable precursor to hip hop or to even go as far as describing it as proto-hip hop. That's really all Jester and I were saying about it. I think we would both acknowledge that, yeah, it existed prior to the hip hop idiom, but it's still shockingly hip hop for it's time.

Agreed. I've heard it described as the first post-modern form of music which I think is one of the things that make it stylistically hard to pin down in a lot of ways.

I do agree, of course, that all of this is hip hop and pretty straight-ahead versions of it too (though wtf is up with that version of "Paid in Full"?). But I also feel that hip hop is a style of music that's been around long enough at this point that it has so many more facets than just that. Just like rock doesn't have to only sound like Chuck Berry to be rock, hip hop too encompasses a very broad range of styles, all of which are still hip hop to me.

Since you specifically mentioned turntablism, I think that's an important and interesting thing to address. Back in the 80s it was definitely an essential part of hip hop but things have really changed a lot in the subsequent decades. Just like the saxophone was once a staple of rock music but lost its prominence as the decades went on, I feel like turntablism has become more and of a niche thing in hip hop over the years. It's still a significant piece of the puzzle but I'd say it's no longer one of the defining characteristics of the genre.

Nice...;) That's funny, it does seem like it though.

I still say Suzy Q invented hip hop in that pepsodyne commercial.

No you're wrong! Blondie was the first white rapper!

i thought blondie was a pop and rock artist.:pssst:

Coke La Rock

Afika Bambaata, Kool Herc, and Grandmaster Flash, are three legends of hip-hop. They are looked as the founding fathers. Kool Herc, is the only one out of the three that gives credit to his Jamaican roots for his early development of break spinning. "Hip-hop….the whole chemistry of that came from Jamaica…..In Jamaica all you needed was a drum and a bass. So what I did was go right to the ‘yoke’. I cut off all the anticipation and just played the beats. I’d find out where the break in the record was and prolonged it and people would love it. So I was giving them their own taste and beat percussion wise….cause my music is all about heavy bass."

One Jamaican artist that probably influenced Kool Herc was Osbourne Ruddock, also know as King Tubby. He was the chief pioneer of dubbing. King Tubby put the focus and center of the reshuffling process, on bass and rhythm, obviously this is where Herc learned his skills. "In Jamaica there is an acute awareness of the riddum as the inner message of the music and a distinct value placed on it." There was no longer a focus on vocals. Herc use to take a record called "BongoRock", which just featured bongos and congas and length and extend each song. This record would later be called "B-beats" and become the first background beats for the dance parties in the Bronx.

Dubbing, thus enable a person to toast. The rhythm and the bass could still be in the background, and a person could just rhyme off the beat. "What is remarkable about vocal/dubs is the way the arrangement constantly changes texture under the lyrics, plunging and climaxing with echo trails, creating different moods that underscore the singer."

DJs in Jamaica were originally around to promote albums and hype up songs. U-Roy was the first to "toast" over King Tubby’s dubbings. "But what separates U.Roy from the rest is the fact that he gave reggae this live jivin dimension which is so electrifying…" Roy boasted phrases fitting in with the words of the song. He used a call and response style, to get the crowd hyped up. "His rhythmic sense and distinctive voice, with it’s gravelly exclamations of "Wow" and "Yeah" have been much imitated, but international success has been elusive for U-Roy."

Originally called emceeing, rapping draws roots from toasting. In the United States, Coke La Rock is credited with boasting crowds; he worked with Kool Herc. "La Rock didn’t rap as we’d recognize it now but was more in the style of the Jamaican sound system toasters or black radio announcers hyping a record. Still, several of his pet party motivating slogans ("Ya rock and ya don’t stop!" "Rock on my mellow!" "To the beat y’all!") would become rap staples. Some old schoolers assert that La Rock was the first hip hop rapper."

You need to stick around homie!!!! :beer:

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