Well, I guess you just have a more restrictive idea of what constitutes hip hop then. Most people on here would certainly consider all of the stuff I listed to be hip hop.

I would even go as far as to say that....most of what you listed would go under alternative hip hop if anything but it's not pure hip hop

So who would you describe as pure hip hop? And what are the defining characteristics of it?

exactly Matious...thank you

I would agree with that. But according to djchameleon's take on it this would be funk with people rapping over it, not hip hop.

yes I see the flaw in my definition...I'll have to revise it some.

Hip Hop to me is more about the fundamentals....Dj'ing, turn tables, party type songs everything that is being exhibited in that video. It isn't limited to party tracks though. Hip Hop extends to gangsta, hardcore and heavy bass tracks as well.

great sampling here

this is hip hop to me





i think you get my point now with these examples.

I think my initial post was misunderstood anyway. I didn't mean simply the backing music, but the genre itself - which is defined primarily by it's center, the vocal technique of rapping. But there's more to hip hop than rapping. You wouldn't call that Dylan song posted earlier hip hop would you? It's an asthetic and culture yes, but it also has a sound that makes it distinct from other styles of music which incorporate rapping, as was brought out.

Sampling is one defining characteristic, which is likely why the genre is so varied to begin with...

There are others too but I'm on my iPhone abd typing on it sucks haha.

Well for the record, yeah, I would describe the Louis Jordan song as jazz basically because jazz is the framework within which he played. At the same time though I certainly think it's fair to describe it as a notable precursor to hip hop or to even go as far as describing it as proto-hip hop. That's really all Jester and I were saying about it. I think we would both acknowledge that, yeah, it existed prior to the hip hop idiom, but it's still shockingly hip hop for it's time.

Agreed. I've heard it described as the first post-modern form of music which I think is one of the things that make it stylistically hard to pin down in a lot of ways.

I do agree, of course, that all of this is hip hop and pretty straight-ahead versions of it too (though wtf is up with that version of "Paid in Full"?). But I also feel that hip hop is a style of music that's been around long enough at this point that it has so many more facets than just that. Just like rock doesn't have to only sound like Chuck Berry to be rock, hip hop too encompasses a very broad range of styles, all of which are still hip hop to me.

Since you specifically mentioned turntablism, I think that's an important and interesting thing to address. Back in the 80s it was definitely an essential part of hip hop but things have really changed a lot in the subsequent decades. Just like the saxophone was once a staple of rock music but lost its prominence as the decades went on, I feel like turntablism has become more and of a niche thing in hip hop over the years. It's still a significant piece of the puzzle but I'd say it's no longer one of the defining characteristics of the genre.