You apologised to someone who uttered this?:
---Women are great creatures in so many ways but they aint music makers.----

I rest my case.

We are all after the same goal. (family/Brother & Sister), Musicians, etc.And we can be our own worst enemies at times. On the brink of genius & insanity (musicians). Acquiring knowledge of the different personalities of musicians is, the ticket to success.:stupid:

Damn, serves me for not reading posts...

Its a well known fact that the guitar, even by its shape was not made for the female hand.

Now, a mop and bucket on the other hand.....

I'm only joking, of course. I was tempted to quote that line as well but had I spent time commenting on the flaws in this persons posts I'd have been here all night.

Flaws they may be but you should actually take out the sarcasm and provokation and actually think for a moment?
For half the human race their aren't many women in the music top 100 of albums, critics 100, best debuts, memorable movements etc.
I know it sounds harsh but kate bush, tracey chapman, karen carpenter, madonna, patty smith, etc.
There isn't many women in the history. Maybe in disco and motown but not in rock.
See me provoking and been obnoxious???
But actually prove me wrong. Or accept it isn't the strong point of women to make rock like it isn't a strong point of men to discuss emotions with tons of friends!!!
Instead of claiming flaws on my part actually show the top 100 in any rock feild and state all the females.
It is just a fact.
I love the bangles and Heart!!
But prove me wrong.

"Instead of claiming flaws on my part actually show the top 100 in any rock feild and state all the females."

Show me a 'list' that actually means something?

And its very easy to prove you wrong as there ARE women in the history of rock music or whatever kind of music you care to mention. Read your own post, or phrase things more carefully.

Keep it up Jalen.
I am provoking arguement for research into a project.
I want answers as opposed to criticisms.
I want contrary eveidence.
Like the who at charlton FC loudest ever gig recorded then.
The who at Woodstock.
The beginnings of mass festival stadium rock n roll from previous clubs and shows in ballrooms.
I wanted people to say "no Hendrix was the first as I could then take that and use it."
See I am slightly playing devils advocate because I want other opinions and actual names and contrary arguements.
It helps this does.
My own opinion is only part of my taste and belief but I have backed it up with facts like the loudest, the first massive open air concerts.
The inspiration for zeppelin etc.
I want people to say "the stones altamont etc."
get my point?
Not just say 'oh you are wrong and silly due to your presentation of your opinions.
I say the Who made the transition to heavy rock.
But was it Hendrix as he came over and inspired the Who or maybe clapton or Free or Yarbirds etc.
Lets have some counter arguements please so I can see what others think.
Peace and if you are in Uk this year try to go to Home - Big Green Gathering
because it is the best festival and most enlightening without beered up crowd just chilling.
Check it out and I might see you there this summer.

I kinda see what Adele's up to now.

Like who and what albums and what critical historic acclaim?
Hey??
Lets have some rock bands names, some rock artists.
I am talking rock here okay.
Gimme some names. Gimme some albums like Nevermind and it's impact or St pepper or whatever you care to mention.
Or just slag off my words if you want to to take up cyberspace space!!!

It has nothing to do with the female capacity to make music and everything to do with gender roles. So I'll say that women aren't relevant as rock music chart toppers but to say that females just aren't good at making music is just an ignorant statement.

sorry I meant rock music.
They mustn't be as up Camden Town I see loads of girls in rock bands but they just aren't doing anything.
The man who puts together a girl rock band (proper) will make simon cowell look the g**sh**e he really is.
There hasn't been a girl rock band ever that the general public thinks is **** hot and cool.
Do you think there will be soon???????!!

it is, but the guy probably didn't mean it at all.

Patti Smith has influenced more musicians than Adele has ever heard of.

Your claims would not stack up in court Jackhammer.
The judge would say "Could we have some evidence please dear boy"
anbd you'd say "she influenced loads of people" and the judge would say "but no names or evideance dear boy, case dismissed on grounds of lack of real evidence...and patty smith was really a man

Anyone who knows anything about music, knows as a cold stone fact that Patti Smith influenced countless musicians...

...except you.

It's about time you left that alternative universe you live in, with it's alternative history of music and joined us all here in the real world ADELE.

Okay right track.
I will try to temper my spirit and accept some of the more dubious claims from now on.
Or I will only add my two bobs worth but not attack other people's opinions.
I understand Right Track.
I'd prefer you to meet me with wit and banter then with complaint as that is fun to make witty exchanges and get people joining in to the debate on both sides but if it annoys you and makes you seriously angry as a seriously minded person I will stop.

I'm not seriously angry...I rarely am.
It's not your posting style that bothers me ADELE...you have personality.
It's the content that gets on my nerves a bit, not to mention your attitude to others opinions.
It's the way you dismiss members views (well informed views too) with a flippant and inaccurate reply.

You certainly know how to generate discussion though...I'll give you that.

Influenced:

Shirley Manson
Michael Styipe
Morrissey
Sonic Youth
The Pixies
Paula Cole
Debbie Harry etc etc

I don't make claims if I cant back them up otherwise I would'nt be able to post anything music related on here. I appreciate you like debate but you also like to get a rise out of people. Problem is it's been three mods that you have had issues with now and between us I think we know what we are talking about.

okay,
not taking the rise but pushing for answers.
So patti Smith represents women's finest in rock (not your words but who has been put forward)
She influenced these people.
Fair enough.
Not a lot to say for women in rock though is it?
I mean, morrisey was influenced by so many from Oscar Wilde to James Dean.
Let's supposing Patti Smith is a talented rock artist (and not punk) got to remember your arguement as it can be checked!!!
Name me some others that ranl with Pink Floyd, stones, beatles, pistols, clash etc etc?
Don't exist.
I am not criticising women at all I am just stating a fact that poses the question why?
remember Blondie didn't write the songs and her band were rather opportunists doing what it takes for MOR success.
Name me some women in rock bands like the who or the rolling stones.
This isn't a criticism it is just evident in rock history.
And you know I say I criticise?
Look what Crowquill wrote on oasis best song about Lennon. Lennon is ****e or something. Isn't that just the same as me? No evidence or even public opinion just a slagging off.
I am only criticising the remarks that are offered with nothing to back them up.
Do you see? Plus my mood changed from hyper to chilled to fun to serious as I work at my PC.
You should attck my arguement.
Or accept it but offer your alternatives.
Thos influences are just influences.
What women have made groundbreaking rock albums?
You tell me?
You can't.
That is my point.

---What women have made groundbreaking rock albums?
You tell me?
You can't.
That is my point.------

Janis Joplin-Cheap Thrills
Joni Mitchell-Blue
Patti Smith-Horses
Siouxsie And The Banshees-The Scream
Pretenders-Pretenders
Kate Bush-Hounds of Love
Tori Amos-Little Earthquakes.

Some may not be strictly rock but they are all very very good. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

:laughing:

There's no shame in writing some of the best pop songs ever written.And as for Debbie Harry not writing the songs , well lets have a look at the songwriting credits for their best of album shall we...

1. "Heart of Glass" (Special Mix) (Harry, Stein) – 4:34
2. "Denis" (Levenson) – 2:17
3. "The Tide Is High" (Barrett, Evans, Holt) – 4:39
4. "In the Flesh" (Special Mix) (Harry, Stein)– 2:31
5. "Sunday Girl" (Special Mix) (Stein) – 3:04
6. "Dreaming" (Harry, Stein) – 3:06
7. "Hanging on the Telephone" (Lee) – 2:22

Side B:

1. "Rapture" (Special Mix) (Harry, Stein) – 5:35
2. "Picture This" (Stein, Harry, Destri) – 2:57
3. "Union City Blue" (Harrison, Harry) – 3:22
4. "(I'm Always Touched by Your) Presence, Dear" (Valentine) – 2:42
5. "Call Me" (Harry, Moroder) – 3:32
6. "Atomic" (Destri, Harry) – 4:40
7. "Rip Her to Shreds" (Harry, Stein) – 3:21

Expecting your pig headed reply any time soon.

Not forgetting that Rapture was one of the first pop records to use a rap section. That was at Harry's behest as she loved the underground rap scene and wanted to highlight it.

Can we please clear up that Pink Floyd was nowhere near the 1st prog band............ever heard of King Crimson? And I'm sure there's bands I haven't heard of that were before them.

I love The Who. They are the inventors of hard rock, I don't care what anyone says.

We could but that has nothing to do with the thread and what we are talking about.

Why join a music forum then...

Doesn't your custom title say "reformed jackass"?

Ironic isn't it?

I guess so.

Yep thats the point.

Because they are stating an opinion they believe to be fact like you regular guys state stuff like John lennon was and arse.
John Lennon's Imagine wasn't even in his top 100 best songs.

The reason the Who are well known is because they changed things.
The stuff on offer from you guys is so poor.
Debbie wasn't rock for God's sake. She was pop.
I am talking about Rock namely hard rock.
Not punk as that has a separtate section .....you see?

Patti Smith was punk.



I like obscure stuff still but don't try to claim undue credit to an unusual band simply because it up's your cred in your minds to know obscure bands and claim they were the driving force when they were not but just as much of an influence as a book that pete townsend read or a film he saw to his songwriting.

Do you guys? When you attack my grammer or attitude it is because you do not have the hard facts and so are angry and looking to try to score back some pride in this forum.
And running stuff down dull.

Well stop obscuring your argument then.
Look at the title of your thread , thats a pretty bold statement.
We've given you examples of bands who were doing the same sort of thing long before The Who ever did , which you just discount because those bands 'were not popular'.

So what exactly is it that you are trying to say here?

Were The Who influential ? ... Certainly , nobody has said they're not.

Were they the first band with that sound to sell millions of records? ... Probably

Were they the first band to do what they do ? ... No they wern't.

So make your mind up whats it to be ?
Your argument that they were first has been discredited , or at least i'll assume we've discredited it as you've not actually answered those points yet. The only thing you can do is cling to some 'they were popular first' shtick which wasn't even your original argument.

If you stop moving the goalposts everytime someone proves you wrong you may even gain some credibility.

and so what if Debbie Harry was pop , last time I checked you didn't have to be a rock band to write good songs.

Blondie was pop and this is the rock section.
The first ever large scale concerts were around 69 with woodstock and the loudest gig was at charlton's ground in London.
Up till then none of your bands would sell out such spaces to create stadium sounds of hard rock.
They wouldn't have sold enough tickets.
Noone knew what large scale rock was till the who played these huge concerts and then promoters went mad for them. That's how led zeppelin started making stadium hard rock.
See my point? Urban is losing this arguement. I mean claiming blondie is a woman's rock star.