that's just it, in the middle ages people didn't question the authority of the church and the bible. it's what it was called. to try to quantify it by todays standard IS folly but it doesn't change the fact that it's what it was called in those days.

to be evil doesn't have to be from satan. it only has to go against the socially accepted view of what is good. those who controlled the whims of society are the ones who get to chose how to describe the various elements of their society.

it's got nothing to do with the bible having sound or a lack thereof.

Well, I was arguing from the standpoint that other Christians tell me that listening to music with satanic lyrics is bad and it is evil music, as in sinful and going against God. I am not trying to convince secular people so much as Christians. Secular people have nothing to worry about and can 100% free think things and accept what they want. Secular, as in being not of a religion.

well i'm sure hardcore christian fundamentalists enjoy the argument as much as you enjoy hearing them tell you you're going to hell for listening to metal. i'm gonna go listen to some sabbath now.

Yeah, I haven't had too much trouble with them lately. It is usually them giving a bad name for secular music in general and me stepping in saying, "Hey...wait a second."

lol
this thread is win

:rofl:

You know what's wrong with Christian metal? It's just not good music and the video you posted with the singer coming in with his jesus on the cross pose is the most disturbing thing i have ever seen in metal.

It having Christian themes doesn't change the sound of the actual music. You wouldn't dislike Iron Maiden if they had Christian lyrics, would you?

I think alot of the bands today are going to the exteme because it's the only way they'll get noticed. Their music isn't good enough so they try to stand out by going over the top. I'm not saying all the bands who do this aren't any good. Slayer is a really talented band who happened to also shock people. Alot of these death metal bands are in my opinion crap so they try to make up for it my being controversial.

Surely the NWOBHM gave rise to a LOT of black/satanic/devil type bands, if you go just by lyrics and artwork? Iron Maiden, THE number one propenent of the NWOBHM, came up with the album "The Number of the Beast". Then there was Black Sabbath, Venom, Demon, Mercyful Fate ... the list goes on.

I THINK what you mean, maybe, is that in recent times the MOOD of HM has gotten very doomy, gloomy and bishroomie (sorry!) :), with a lot of bands focussing on the darker areas of life, but then the metal we knew in our youth (well, I did in mine) has now fragmented into so many different sub-genres --- doom, death, thrash, power, black, viking... again, the list goes on.

There are a lot of really good Heavy Metal bands still making "upbeat" music, like Dragonforce, Hammerfall etc, and of course Maiden are still around. I wouldn't say it's ALL dark...

And then, if you want the other end of the scale, I know of at least one decent Christian Metal band who kick ass as good as, if not better than, many of the acts around today. Check out Narnia's "Long live the king", and see what I mean!
:)