Oh yeah? I'll bring up Rush in this Dream Theater conversation. Rush > Dream Theater.

If you think DT sounds the same now as they did when the started out you are completely wrong. See you simply don't know the band. You look at Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and then listen to Train of Thought, then listen to Octavarium. They are as far different as possible.

As different as possible? So did they start with like a reggae-funk sort of sound and then move on to prog-metal?

No, they were a little less heavy back when they started, but they're basically the same.

No thats not true at all. You think A Change of Seasons is basically the same thing as Train of Thought? you are nuts

Speaking of art rock, there really wasn't much distinguishing the two terms back in the 70s. It was used to describe Genesis just as often as it was used to describe Roxy Music.

If OK Computer and Kid A were released in the 70s they would undeniably be considered prog albums.

But now of course prog is a term used to describe bands that take obvious influence from other prog bands. So it's very common to see a bunch of tards saying "Radiohead are not prog, I can't hear any Yes or Genesis influences at all".

That's a pretty good description, though I love Rush, they're an obvious inlfluence on Dream Theater. But overall DT do remind me more of Kansas and Toto with a metal twist. :laughing:

I don't consider Toto to be much of a prog band actually. In the late 70s you had arena rock bands like Journey and Toto embracing some prog influences but when these bands get lumped into the same category it's quite embarassing.

I think of bands like Kansas and Styx as being lite prog or commercial prog, a combination of prog and arena rock. And yes, DT reminds me a lot more of Kansas and Styx than they do King Crimson and Yes. And the saddest part is...

Kansas and Styx are still way better.

Heh if anything progressive metal is more metal than it is prog. At least in my opinion.

Agreed, I can remember back in the early 80`s when prog was supposedly dead but Marillion were a huge band in the UK and were labelled neo prog rock and had hordes of adoring fans. In reality, listening to Marillion was just like listening to Peter Gabriel era Genesis and there was absolutely nothing original or new about them, but the fact that they sounded like Genesis deemed them the new prog rock masters label of the 80's. In fact the most progressive artist at that time in the UK was certainly Kate Bush but she was labelled "Art Rock".

It now becomes clear, how a band like Radiohead have achieved the "Art Rock" label and not prog............Quite simply they don`t sound like anybody before them.

Being from the UK I was always more fascinated by US bands than UK ones especially in the late 70`s and 80`s and here you have named 4 favs Toto and Journey (Soft-Hard Rock) Styx and Kansas (Prog/Rock)

I think the defining feature in prog rock especially of that era, is that the British animal is very different to the north American one and Rush certainly followed the British animal, whereas Kansas and Styx are good evidence of the Amercian animal. Therefore, its no surprise that DT are far more like either Kansas and Toto than they are like either KC or Yes.

In fact, the only prog type stuff Journey ever did was in their Greg Rolie era and as for Toto their second album "Hydra" had some elements but that is as about as far as it goes.

Whereas the 3 Kansas albums "Masque" "Left Overture" and "Point of no Return" along with the 2 Styx albums "the Grand Illusion" and "Pieces of Eight" for me are 5 of the greatest prog albums ever released.

DT in some aspects, are actually more set up like a rock band than a true prog group. They are set up in the way that both Toto or Journey were, for example, they have a dominant lead singer with a great voice in LaBrie very similiar to either Kimball and Perry in quality (even though I think Kimball and Perry have the edge) Showman guitarist in Petrucci similiar to either Lukather and Schon and a consumate sticksman in Portnoy again similiar to J.Pocaro or Smith and like these groups designed for arena rock, they then added on the progressive metal influences.

Here's my top ten

10. Bo Diddley
9. Brian May
8. Chuck Berry
7. Frank Zappa
6. David Gilmour
5. Carlos Santana
4. Jerry Garcia
3. Jimmy Page
2. Stevie Ray Vaughan
1. Jimi Hendrix

Tuneman,

I`m sure this has been mentioned on this thread before but short of shifting through a lot of threads here, tell me your opinion on the folllowing guitarists and how you think they compare to Petrucci?

Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and Ritchie Blackmore for me probably the three greatest in ability, showmanship and influence? When I talk about ability I`m not talking about technical ability but more about their ability to make me froth at the mouth.

I`ve got stuff by both of these artists and to be honest couldn`t even name you a song by either or even remember a guitar riff, it shows how memorable they are.