Yeah but those are black metal bands. That kinda music has always been associated with the right wing and isn't representative of any other metal genre. I'd say all the other ones are about as leftist as you get, without being punk.

Alright, I don't want to jump on the bandwagon calling you a racist and prejudiced and what not, but stop throwing out "queer". It just sounds like a slur the way you use it.

Thank you for making a good point.

Exactly. The word 'queer' really annoys me.

I really don't know of any other genre of music that's had explicitly racist bands so widely accepted by the genres fans. I mean Varg Vikernes has been put on the cover of magazines; and not just underground rags, either.

Anyways, explicitly racist bands aside, how many bands are there that play with fascist symbolism and lyrics? How much controversy has surrounded Slayer for "Angel of Death"? Or what about Malevolent Creation, who've proclaimed themselves to be anti-racist, yet ended an album with "**** you ******s!"

This leads us to the question of what can be called "coded language". Is there any point at which anti-christian lyrics and imagery become anti-semitic? What about when a band speaks of smashing the race of christ? Or when a band, even a multi-ethnic one such as Vital Remains, paints Christianity as both foreign & harmful? Then there's the case of bands who celebrate their particular (almost always white) heritage - such as Absu, or Amon Amarth....

I guess my general point is: we can argue about whether metal, in particular underground metal, is generally racist. However, I've very, very little doubt that the popular media would've no problems labeling the vast majority of these bands racist. I mean, if Don Imus gets fired for calling some girls "nappy-headed hos", how in the hell would they react to "Panzer Division Marduk"?

Metal is, has, and always been about diversity. To say the genre is homophobic is not fair, the genre is definitely typically more insensitive to gays but it's pretty much the entire purpose of metal to be insensitive. There's also pro-tolerance metal as well. Bands like Anthrax preach endlessly about issues of racial harmony, and such (albeit, ironically Stormtroopers of Death does the opposite, and in Methods of Destruction which is essentially the same band utilizes the phrase '**** your ****** charity'. Proving that a lot of racism in metal is very clearly tongue-in-cheek).

Metal is about excepting any viewpoint really, and cannot hold any real cultural ground as it's just rock with heavier distortion. Especially, being based on a black form of music, there's no way it could be distinctly 'raaa!!! WITE PAWURRR!!!" but excepts the message in many forms, and many gradients of seriousness.

But, you are a ridiculous troll who is presumably proporting Nazi garbage to a forum of people who largely don't care as a gimmick, so I'm sure this concept is completely dull to you.

Furthermore, your 'evidence' is really weak.

Metal as a genre only has a few mainstream figures due to their freak instances. I mean, Charles Manson wrote a record, appeared on tons of magazine covers, and nobody considers him a dominating force in folk. Such figures as mentioned are completely insignificant, and musically unimportant. There is some good that came from Norwegian Black metal, but it's a massively bloated over-rated genre in hole. Mainly due to freak instances that garner media attention, and not due to musical inventiveness or importance.

In no way does it signify homosexuality in metal as improper, as you seem to be hinting at.

People like Varg Vikernes appear on magazine covers because they`re controversial and a guarantee of magazine sales and that is all, sure he can be seen as being representative of black metal, but he`s certainly not representative of metal the metal genre in any way.

The fascist symbolism & lyrics are no different to the symbolism & lyrics associated with satanism and topics of extreme violence etc that a number of metal bands can sing about, its just an image and subject area to base their material around and again nothing more. I`d say the % of bands that actually practiced what they sang about would be a very small number anyway. The Slayer example is actually quite a poor one when you quickly dissect it. Sure they sing about extreme subject areas of which Nazism is one such subject area, but just look at the members of Slayer and you`ll see that 50% of them are of latino heritage, that in itself is nothing startling, but it takes on greater significance in a country like the USA where they are based, as they form part of an ethnic minority that white extremists wouldn`t see as part of their ideal society, for this reason alone Slayer can hardly be seen as rascist.

The underground metal that you speak of again as being anti gay or racist, largely centers itself again around black metal once again, hell these *******s even participate in the burning down of churches, proof that besides hating diversity in society, that they also hate the established traditions of society.

To summarize, I`d say it was fairly safe to say that metal wasn`t anti any of the things that have been discussed here in general and out of the 20-30 genres that make up the genre, only sub-genres like black metal and some other bands from other sub-genres would fall into the category of being rascist and homophobic.

I read Slayer's lyrics, ya know, they're more "documentary" rather than extolling any beliefs of the members

i mean Tom Araya's a Catholic, for f*ck's sake

Exactly and the documentary label fits perfectly here.

Again, black metal.

Shock value.

Stretch much?

**** the media.

*sigh* Yeah. Black metal.


You know, any post that large that only required that much of a response to demolish it, wasn't really worth my time was it?

It's an old thread to resurrect, I know, but I was just scrolling through topics...Otep Shamaya (Otep) and Carver (Eclipse Eternal) are both gay to my knowledge, Doug Pinnick (King's X...okay, I guess they're not really metal, but lots of metalheads seem to like them)...and of course Rob Halford and Gaahl.