Is extreme metal boring now?
 

I've seen this opinion expressed numerous times throughout my time listening to metal. And I think it makes for a rather interesting discussion. Do YOU think extreme metal is boring? Is all of it boring? Is just the new stuff boring? What makes it boring?


I have been back and forth on this topic. I don't find all extreme metal to be boring. Is some of it? Yes. What genre of music doesn't have boring bands though? That being said there are bands out there that make me change my mind all of the time. I understand the genre is diluted with bands that copy one another, and play the same riffs over and over, don't get me wrong, I understand that. That being said there's bands out there making fresh music, too, doing their own thing. I find that fun and interesting.


All of that being said I think a large majority of death metal being released right now is awful, again my opinion. Granted, I'm not one for the brutal death metal so many bands seem to release, or the overly technical death metal so many bands are releasing. Those two things are not my cup of tea, at all. I like my death metal fast, loud, gritty, and normally somewhat thrashy. And yeah, there are a lot of bands out there making that type of death metal now, but just like with the whole heavy metal, and the thrash revival most of that doesn't appeal to me a lot of it sounds over produced and just doesn't work for me. Not to say I don't like any of it; But a majority of it.. I don't.

And for black metal, yes, a large majority of it is carbon copy bands which are rehashing the same Burzum sounding songs over and over. There are fresh and exciting/fun bands out there though. IE; I find Panopticon to be pretty fun, and pretty refreshing comparing to much of the black metal out there now. It takes a lot of digging to find bands that are refreshing and interesting due to the large amount of junk diluting the genres, but I think that happens within a lot of genres.

By the way, I do understand there are people are there who DON'T like metal, or extreme metal, and that's understandable feel free to express your opinion on why you don't like it. My main interest though was hearing from people who have enjoyed extreme metal at some point in time, and no longer do.

Maybe Im not the best person to ask as music listed as "boring" is usually stuff I like, but I think the last few years have yielded really great extreme metal albums. (I havent really been paying attention as much as id hoped this year though so my knowledge is very much limited).

I dont really know what kind of death metal you like/dislike but bands like Ulcerate, Septic Flesh, Be'lakor, Gorguts, Monolith Deathcult (amongst others) have put out really great stuff in the past few years. So no I dont think the majority of death metal released now is terrible but then again Im not really into the thrashy side of it anyway..

And I think there have been more and better black metal albums recently too. Blood of the Hermit by Mortualia has become one of my favorite albums of this decade of any genre although it would not be difficult to call it boring either. Im a big fan of the droning black metal that seems to be fairly popular right now. Inquisition have put out a couple albums recently that are very good and have a fairly distinctive sound, Murmuure has his lucid, noisy, beautiful album from 2010 that's really really great. Noregs Vaapen by Taake pays homage to an older school of bmetal, The Feral Wisdom by Wormlust has psychedelic undertones, Botanist uses a dulcimer instead of guitars for an incredibly eerie effect, Funerals from an Astral Sphere by Midnight Odyssey is like a celestial journey. All this without mentioning bands like An Autumn for Crippled Children, Sleeping Peonies, Cold Body Radiation, Lantlos, etc who do very cool work with shoegaze or ambient elements. And without mentioning tons of other bands that id like to work into this paragraph but I feel like this has become more of a list than I had wanted to begin with.

And all of this is just since 2010.

All in all, no I dont think extreme metal is in a bad place, in fact I think the opposite. I think its grown exponentially since the 90s and both black and death metal are flourishing with new ideas. I love old school extreme metal as much as the next guy but it cant always stay like it was and im enjoying seeing the branches that are coming from them. And maybe it is harder to find great ones, but thats half the fun.

I think the true definition of 'extreme metal' is difficult for me to pinpoint or make judgement upon, because for a long time I thought it just meant experimental. What defines extreme? Ideology, unusual instrumental stylings, anticonformism in general?

I usually use it as an umbrella term for death and black metal.

I'm like you in the sense I'm probably not the best person to ask; Because, like you said, "boring" appeals to me. That being said don't take my original post the wrong way, I do think there's plenty of great music within these genres being released, and especially black metal. In fact I think black metal is better now than its ever been. Maybe that's because I don't buy into all the "True Kvlt" second wave stuff, I like some of those bands but I don't live by it. I think albums being released now are better than those albums, personally. So I don't think extreme metal is in a bad state, personally, but I've seen that statement thrown around numerous times so I was curious to know what others though.

I was using it like Ninetales said as a blanket term for black and death metal. Should have made that a bit more clear in my original post, I suppose.

Ah. Well in that case, I wouldn't say its boring and I love the shows, but I personally listen to less than I used to. Still listen to plenty but I think every metal imbiber overdoses on that **** eventually, it gets old. There's really only so much that can be done if the band isn't very experimental and few are.

It becomes a less common listen, unless its absolutely your standby genre above all others. And if thats the case, you're more open to new **** anyways.

Yeah. I mean I've only been into metal about 7-8 years; Yet I do at times grow bored with metal. I know there is a lot of variety in metal, and I know people who don't ever seem to grow bored with it, but I love variety. So, yes, I do grow bored over over indulging over a period of time, but I do that with any music genre.

I agree with this (and am taking notes on the releases I haven't heard of). I think the past 5-10 years have actually been kind of a golden age for extreme metal.

Well you said you also wanted to hear from people who don't enjoy extreme metal, and here I am. God help the person next to me who says, as Nine said, "I like extreme metal as much as the next guy", cos I'm the next guy! :)

I love metal but I prefer the power/thrash/traditional NWOBHM and progressive side of it. As anyone here will tell you, I bore everyone by telling them that there's one thing I have to have in my music, and that's melody. I can't stand vocals I can't understand, or music that's played so loud and/or fast that it becomes just a blur. I am, in other words, no Batlord! :rofl:

However the bands I do like --- Maiden, Sabbath, Tygers, Motorhead, Helloween, Stratovarius, Kamelot, Manowar and a ton others ---- all continue to bring out consistently good releases. I recently reviewed Kamelot's latest album and pronounced it "the saddest I had ever heard", and it is. Metal can take you to places a lot of other music can't, and although I understand the interest in and love of extreme metal, it's never been for me. If you want examples of me trying ALL types of metal (even Slipknot!) check my journal and search for "Metal month". You'll see I gave them all a fair shot --- Carcass, Morbid Angel, Kreator, Possessed ---- but it just isn't for me.

So why am I even here in this thread? Where am I anyway? How did I get here, and how do I get out??? :eek: :laughing:

I guess my point is that you can be into metal without being into extreme metal, which obviously has nothing to do with your OP, but it is something of a view perhaps from the other side. Not quite poseur, but you won't find me at any Mayhem concerts anytime soon...

I don't think it's boring. I'm quite pleased that there are some bands mentioned there that I haven't listened too. I'll add them to my list!

Extreme metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
''Extreme metal is a loosely defined umbrella term for a number of related heavy metal music subgenres that have developed since the early 1980s. The term usually refers to a more abrasive, harsher, underground, non-commercialized style or sound nearly always associated with genres like thrash metal, black metal, death metal, and doom metal.''-Wikipedia

It's pretty much all of the more heavy/agresive, more ''extreme'' metal sub genres.

Thanks dude, except I would never refer to any doom, or a good number of black metal or thrash bands, as extreme metal. To expand on the point I was trying to make then forgot about... the word extreme, to me, means overbearingly intense **** thats fast and obnoxious s ****. That's why I don't fully understand the definition, like who the hell ever has referred to My Dying Bride as extreme metal? Or Judas Priest? I mean these are bands you could chill around at home listening to.

So extreme metal is fast, pounding, loud and in your face music IMO. It seems to me the actual definition is in reference to a non-mainstream production value, considering the chill and bearable subgenres it associated with, and I disagree with that definition. Production cannot be referred to as extreme or not extreme, I just personally think that's really lame.

I think the best way to look at extreme metal as a category is as an umbrella term for the styles of metal, beginning in the 80s, where metal ceased being a subgenre if rock and started to be its own entity, things like death metal, black metal, grindcore. It's the branch of the metal family tree that doesn't contain things like traditional metal, NWOBHM, glam, power metal, etc. Traditional doom isn't extreme metal but later types of doom are, like drone doom.

I guess I just generally associate the word 'extreme metal' with ****ty music praised by teenagers, heavy on the 'core'. And if I like it, I don't call it extreme, I call it by a more definitive name. No offense meant to core fans.

For instance a lot of the bands Ninetales brought up I never thought of as extreme because their songs have melody, thus placing them, in my eyes, within a more proper genre.

To me it's just a label that makes it easier to discuss a chunk of metal. Like any genre-related terminology it's not a judgement of quality, just a shorthand way of describing a group of related things.

I have to agree with what some people have already said in that extreme Metal has always had its share of boring releases, but has also had its gems for each year as well. I also have to say I think extreme Metal over the past few years has been just fine, if not as good as it's ever been. Here's a list of some extreme Metal releases from over the past 5 or so years, which I think all have proven the genre's not in a decline.

Sigh - Scenes From Hell (2010)
Hail Spirit Noir - Pneuma (2012)
Wintersun - Time I (2012)
Absu - Absu (2009)
Mondstille - Seelenwund (2012)
Gallowbraid - Ashen Eidolon (2010)
Catuvolcus - Gergovia (2012)
Klabautamann - Merkur (2009)
Watain - Lawless Darkness (2010)
Kalmah - Seventh Swamphony (2013)
Behemoth - The Satanist (2014)
Bran Barr - Sidh (2010)
Bornholm - March For Glory and Revenge (2009)


All of these albums prove to me extreme Metal has been doing just fine, and there's many more released in the last five years that cement my opinion even further.

I believe the reason people say it's boring now but wasn't in the past isn't anything out of the ordinary. There's always someone who will say anything isn't as good as it used to be for whatever reason. I just usually either ignore it, or explain how I feel, and give them a counter argument. I don't think anyone who likes extreme Metal now should be worried by the naysayers, I know I'm not.


As for people who've never liked extreme Metal. That's fine, but please don't give a reason that "it has no melody" because virtually all of the extreme Metal I've heard has had melody. It just may not have a common sort of melody, in a way that it may be more dissonant or less clear. If you give it some time those extreme Metal sounds could really grow on you, though you shouldn't force yourself either. But there's even a lot of extreme Metal out there with easy and catchy melodies. So don't make up stuff about a genre you may not have looked into much.

Are you implying genres with the word core in it suck?
Because I'd consider Hardcore Punk a very important punk rock genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmgWNTsrr68.
And just because a genre is heavier, doesn't mean it's ****ty music praised by teenagers. It's just an umbrella term man, to make it easy when talking about this type of metal instead of the more traditional type. You don't have to take it seriously, it's not an actual genre name.

@ Mythosofmetal: perhaps I should rephrase: I don't hear any melody in it. It's true some people may hear melody in birdsong, wind, a car engine or anything else, but that doesn't mean I do. You're right in that I have looked very little into this subgenre, but again check my journal for Metal Month (October 2013) and you'll see I gave it a good shot, and did not just put down every band. I tried but little of it appealed to me, though the odd one did.

I find it hard to find any melody in music that is played way way too fast to follow (for me) or gutteral or screamed vocals that seem to be just ranting a lot of the time (Morbid Angel/Slipknot/Possessed etc). Also I've had people far more into this music than I would ever be tell me "there doesn't always have to be melody", which presupposes they don't necessarily hear any in the music of some of the bands in this subgenre either...

The more melodic you make it, the less it sounds like the genre :P. Sure, there's melody in there, but like you said: Not a lot.

Melody is a series of notes played in a pattern, so it definitely has melody. It's just not a melody that you enjoy.

Yeah, more or less what I was saying..
No, it's a melody I can't hear. There's a difference. There are plenty of melodies I don't like but can at least detect. In much extreme metal I hear NO melody. As I said, correcting myself, it's not that there IS none there but just that I don't hear it. It's not that I don't enjoy it; it is not there, for me, to hear to enjoy or dislike.

You tell me where the melody is here


To me, that's just noise.
I know; I'm a girl. :rolleyes: But that's how I view music like this.

All the notes coming out of the guitar in sequence constitute melody. I understand you not liking it or finding it abrasive, but I don't get how you can say you don't hear it. Surely you hear that there is a guitar being played in that song, right? The song even has a minute-long bridge from about 1:10 to 2:10 where they completely focus on melody.

Most of the melody comes from the guitar. Take this metalcore(It's one of the few metalcore bands I like) riff for example when I sing along with it and slow it down(although not really extreme metal, I suck at playing guitar and this is simple and I can easily find tabs for it).
Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruGkLEZsN4o
0:00-0:12

Me:
Vocaroo | Voice message

That's definitely a melody.

Or what about this riff at the beginning which most of my friends find that sounds very random. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnO-YrRAQY

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IkxmHBtlHI
The timing on that one is rather odd, but that has to do with the fact that it has mathcore elements.
Sure, it's a weird type of melody, but it's definitely a melody..

Wow. I leave for a couple days, come back, and this thread has grown.

Cool to see the different opinions and outlooks.

You have possibly heard the album before, Trollheart, but what is your opinion on something like Dissection's - Storm of the Lights Bane? Because there's without doubt melody to be found throughout this album, and by most this album is regarded as a classic. Yes it still has what some might classify as "unbearable" vocals and its hardly accessible.

Okay, can we just establish something here? You all may hear melody in that song but I don't. You can't make me hear something I don't feel is there, so can you all just accept that and move on? I'm getting a little weary saying why I can't hear melody, why it is not melody to me. That's how I am, it's my opinion and my view. Can you just leave it at that instead of trying to convince me and essentially saying, you're wrong, the melody is there?

I don't hear it. I can't. So let that be an end to it. Please.

Thanks.

Sure.

But for the record I'm not trying to convince you to hear something you don't. I actually asked you what your opinion was on the song/album if you had ever heard it. And yes, I did voice my personal opinion on the song having melody, and for most people into Dissection that's among the first thing they will mention about the band is them being focused on melody. That's not to say you or everyone will, or should, hear it. Many people probably won't hear it, and many probably will write it off as garbage. I simply asked you your opinion.

Perhaps you weren't talking to me, and if not you can ignore this post. Again if I came across as trying to convince you to hear something, that was not how I intended it.

Sorry no I wasn't talking to you. It was Janszoon and I think mythosofmetal I was directing my comment at.

Haven't listened to that track yet but I will. Your comment that the vocals could be deemed "unbearable" does not fill me with hope though! ;)

Okay, gotcha!

I'm curious to hear your opinion on the track, if by chance you DO enjoy it I can shoot you some similar bands you might like.

Yeah I think I just don't dig deviating from my own invented definition for 'extreme' haha. It's too ingrained.

But, if I were to do so, I'd have to say extreme metal isn't boring now, nor has it ever been. If anything, the black and death bands have definitely gotten more creative and it's a genre that keeps seeing more and more growth with more and more experimentation. Today's bands are a far cry from the **** I used to listen to.

I thought you might find this interesting Trollheart. Consonance and dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The link is about consonance and dissonance in music. Consonance is something generally thought of as pleasant, and dissonance is usually thought of as something harsher, or not immediately pleasing to the average person's ears.

I've found a lot of extreme Metal focuses on dissonance at many points during songs. So I thought you may be thinking dissonant melodies aren't really melodies and only really recognize the consonant/easily appreciable melodies as such. Though a lot of extreme Metal can focus just as much on consonance as dissonance.

At the top right of the wiki page there's two sound samples, one a consonant melody and another one a dissonant one. I'd like it if you could listen to both to get an idea of what I'm talking about and would encourage you to read further into the article if you want.


Also, here's an extreme Metal song which I'd like you to listen to, to see if you do find melody in it. The reason I'm posting this is because I've found a lot of people who are new to genres and have only heard select groups can have warped ideas on what the whole genre contains. So I wanted to share this song with you to see if it could possibly change your opinion on extreme Metal.

This song would pretty much fit into the genre of Post-Black Metal.


Janvs - Torri di Vetro - YouTube

I don't really think extreme metal is boring, I just believe a good part of it can become repetitive rather quickly, especially when all of the bands are trying to just play as "brutal" as possible. You keep listening to faster and faster paced songs, and when you keep wanting them to keep playing quicker and you finally reach the ceiling, it just becomes repetitive, and you're not satisfied.

Ok, you asked me the question about a specific song and I was responding. Seems a little odd that you'd be made weary by someone answering a question that you asked, but ok.

I think I understand what you mean by melody, you mean harmony. No you will not find much harmony in most death metal because it utilize a lot of chromatic scales and semitones.

It is bouncing from full tones that produces the melody/harmony that you like, this is less prevalent when you are utilizing semitones, which is why a Morbid Angel album sounds like one long jazz instrumental.

You will however finds lots of melody in Black Metal especially bands that utilize symphonics. Dimmu Borgir is the most accessible of these bands for a newbie, but u have to listen to a lot satanist garb, so if that's not your bag try the first Ulver album, or do a search for black folk metal.

Extreme metal has always been boring.

Or I'd again suggest Dissection. You can actually understand what they're singing, and they have an almost Maidenish vibe at times. This song right here is the closest extreme metal will ever get to a ballad.

Oh sorry man I didn't mean to come over all pouty. It's just that I don't hear the melody and so I'd jsut rather that was accepted than I get pushed to sort of be forced to hear it. But you're right, I did ask the question. It was kind of rhetorical though I realise now that's not how it may have come across.
Yes! Yes! This man gets it! Harmony, that's what I mean! Lovely girls, her and her sister Melody! :laughing: Yeah I think that's what I was trying to convey all right: I hear no harmony in SOME extreme metal. Not all, but some. Thanks for that! :thumb:

That's a very good point and kind of illustrates how I feel too. Playing faster and harder is not necessarily playing better. It can be great when done well of course but it can also fall flat on its face very easily. And you need to have, to my mind, more in your music than just speed and noise.

No, I won't say the "M" word again... :shycouch: