Frownland- errr how exactly can you argue that rap is not music.

Also Contrivednihilism, rap may be in dire need of reconnecting with its much more compelling past. Whatever happened to original, raw, honest, grassroots storytelling against some killer beats, I ask myself..! But at the same time, I don't see how you can argue that mainstream rock produces anything of much more quality.

On the subject of Kanye's so-called genius: in my opinion, Kanye is one of those artists with unfulfilled potential. Some of the music in College Dropout reflects a person groping towards greatness. There's some flashes of emerging genius in some of the lyrics. But I haven't liked any of his work ever since. I think the fact that he doesn't live in the real world and has embraced a plastic celebrity lifestyle is key to the disintegration in his music quality. To be a great rapper you need to exist in the real world. It didn't do him any favours but Tupac never lost that connection to the tough life he came from. It meant his music never lost its grit. Kanye is just not comparable in any way.

maybe because a lot of modern rap music is tits, bitches, guns and ho's.

maybe i'm not seeing the big picture, but that's all modern rap is to me.

i'm not saying that there aren't good rappers, but to my knowledge, those seem to be 80's and 90's artists.

besides, some rappers have amazing bassists.

i once saw a video of two rappers letting their bassists have a massive bass battle on stage.

i don't remember who they were, only that it was awesome.

Well, actually today's rock does produce better music than some of what you hear from Rap today. I think that's not something I'd label a fact, more so a truth. I honestly feel that Rock has always produced better music than Rap has, Rap has had some fantastic music output in some periods of time but I don't consider today's time one of them. Rock is still writing about a wider range of topics than today's Rap: The topic of sex, women in general, money, cars, a big house, self praise exists in today's Rock too, just it's not the only thing ever being written about, much like in some much of Rap today.

All of this is just my opinion, I'm not forcing my view or anything. I just can't agree with you that Rock isn't producing better music. Because my opinion is that yes, Rock is in fact producing better music or the output of better music is more frequent. I am however frustrated that so much of Rock today though doesn't seem to put in a large amount of effort in their song arrangements or songwriting. The aim is just to copy whatever sound in Rock music is popular at the time to become a national touring band, win those awards, get those platinum album plaques, or things like that. Overall, Rock to me is still the stronger genre of music and still with all the seemingly stagnant or dullness of the music, it's got more going for it than Rap right now. I feel funny saying that though because Rap is a more dominant genre currently...

Nah dude, rock has been kind of stale lately, at least in popular terms. There are still a lot of great artists who are more niche, but I'd say that hip hop is evolving more so.

I know of only scraps of his music but they booked him for a reason, either correctly or incorrectly. I say let him headline and make a fool of himself to justify all of this and more criticism, or let him play a monstrous hit-laden set and entertain millions of people, all the while giving the festival a bit of diversity. You don't have to watch it either way.

Always try and make it into a win-win.

Hm...

Yeah, maybe hip hop has evolved more or is changing more than Rock is. But you know Frownland. I did state that Rock has got a dullness or is in a stagnant period. So we agree there. An rap or hip hop to Rock ration though. I've liked more from Rock this past two years or more than what I have liked from hip hop or rap. It's not really surprising though, because neither rap or hip hop has been music I've really liked a whole lot.

I have to agree that Rock is definitely the more stale genre, it's been pretty stagnant for a long time now. I mean, say what you will about Hip-Hop, but it's definitely a genre that encourages experimentation and the incorporation of different genres more readily. I know Kanye is arrogant and overrated, but for a popular artist to follow an album like MBDTF with an album like Yeezus, sound wise, took a lot of balls, and showed this his interests don't lie in pure commercialism musically, so I respect him for that. Plus it's a really good album even if his rapping is generally pretty bad. I love rock with all my heart, it's my main genre, but I'm not going to sit here and lie that the state of popular rock is anything less than dismal at the moment.

It's my third time saying it now; yes, Rock is in a stale period where pushing the envelope forward has become an afterthought. Rock is my secondary genre, where Metal is my go to. Metal is more experimentally driven, Rock right now is content with being simple and radio driven.

There's no question that Hip Hop or Rap is more experimental than Rock is right now. But does it make sense when I still want to say Rock is producing better music still, even with Hip Hop and Rap being more experimental and wanting to keep things fresh, in a sense? It's probably just me like/dislike for Hip Hop, Rap that's got me saying that.

The 80's may have been a bland or boring point for Rock to some. But I think that today's bands should reference some of those bands and even those from the 70's and further back if they want to get out of this rut.

Well it's only natural, rock has had a lot of time to evolve while hip hop is still developing.