They were replaced in a different demographic, IMO. Nirvana and PJ were part of a alternative or grunge crowd, whereas GNR was always hard rock. GNR was lumped into the hair metal thing but really weren't, and younger people were tired of classic rock, heavy metal and hair metal. They wanted their own thing that spoke to them, and grunge was it. But nobody turned off the tap when it came to GNR. Every GNR release sold platinum, right up to 1993. Both the Illusion albums (7X each) and Spaghetti sold platinum. So did Chinese Democracy, 15 years later. That pretty much tells you how big these guys were- 15 years after their prime ended, they sell a million albums. Their fans stuck with them. While Nirvana was really big but had a very short shelf life, what, 3 years? They are looked at with reverence but never impacted worldwide the way GNR did, IMO.

Another thing that will be interesting to see once this tour starts is whether or not he'll get himself into shape. My mom was a huge GNR fan back in the Appetite days, but said she has no interesting in seeing Axl perform anymore since he's "fat and ugly" these days. I'm curious to see how looks will play into this, and how far Axl will go to reclaim some of his former glory days in regards to his looks.

What are you talking about? They were totally a glam band. They came from the Sunset Strip glam scene and they played glam music that just happened to have a harder edge than Poison. What exactly makes them not a hair band?

Talent.

Wait, what band are we talking about now? I thought you guys were talking about GnR.

He looked in good shape two years ago when I saw him play. He's not 19 years old anymore. And let your Mom know she is incredibly shallow. And tell us all exactly how we can reclaim our "former glory days in regards to looks"- I know an awful lot of 50 year olds who are interested.

The biggest joke of a hair metal band of that era were Winger (hell, Beavis and Butthead pretty much ruined their careers). And Winger had 10X more talent than GnR.

What does that have to do with anything? Just because you like one band from a genre doesn't make them not a band from that genre. They were formed from members of two glam metal bands for god's sake.

I think LCD Soundsystem's reunion is more interesting than Axl's bitch punk ass band :finger:

Good heavens no.

I gotta agree with the old fart on this one. Slash is more of a gimmick than a talented guitar player. Axle sounds like a giant mosquito, and the rest of the band generally just phone it in. Kip is a fantastic singer/bass player, with more charisma and charm than Axle could ever hope to stuff into his little Cruella-themed cigarette holder, and Reb Beach... well, let's just say that he can do more with a guitar than use a wah and play box pattern blues variations. That man is a machine on the six string.

Guns 'n' Roses made music with actual feeling, with bite, with energy and they were willing to experiment. They could be hit-or-miss, but they made two great albums. Winger were by-the-numbers, soulless glam metal whether they had technical ability or not.

Axle doesn't have an e.

Yes it does. But Axl doesn't. ;)

So, you're gonna play the tech vs. feel card eh? All I know is **** GnR. Can't stand em. I do however love quite a few songs that Winger did, especially their later stuff.

I'm a guitar player, so this is a bit biased, but here's one good example of my stance on this:

It's funny how everybody creams their pants over the guitar solo in November Rain when it's just Stash bending a note to a minor, and then there's Reb's work on Witness that had gone mostly unnoticed because it didn't get any limelight. In my personal opinion, this outro solo is one of the most soulful and emotional guitar solo's I have ever had the privilege of putting into my earholes. It's got more feeling in just a few tremolo bends than any of Stash's phoned-in crap.

Starts @ about 4:00

I don't like either of them, but I think that playing appropriately for the music that you're making is a greater sign of talent than complexity and technical ability. That being said, I 100% agree with Plank that Slash plays his guitar via phone.

That's how he get's those crazy slides while his Mom nags at him to cut his hair.

His hat is pretty cool though.

Here, have some funny:

That's a bit too scary for me, I'll pass.

Sorry man, this Winger song doesn’t do anything for me. I hear that the guy has technical ability with a guitar but he’s not playing anything that hits me emotionally or interests me in any way. Kip’s voice is as bland as I remember it. The drums and bass take such a backseat that there really isn’t much to say about them. And the keyboard at the beginning is flat out awful. More importantly than the individual pieces, the song itself doesn’t do anything for me.

I’m not here to defend Slash—I think he’s kind of one trick pony who hasn’t done anything worthwhile since the heyday of G’n’R. I’m saying G’n’R worked not as individual pieces, but as a whole. They were more than the sum of their parts and they made some great music at one time.

I normally don't get all hyped about November Rain's solo. I love November Rain for the lyrics. Rose may suck at singing these days, even during the UYI days of '91. But he's a good lyricist. Plus, it's the best song on UYI I

It's all subjective of course. That solo actually moved me to tears a few times. Stash never did that to me.

As for GnR... I've never liked them. I think their popularity stemmed more from their personification of the rock and roll lifestyle (and they all played into that illusion really well) more so than having actual talent, which was the point. Sure they were talented, but Winger has more. In my humble opinion.

..and playing appropriately for the music you're making can be interpreted in many ways too. Especially coming from you, Mr. avant-garde. What's appropriate for one, might not be another's cup of tea.

I'm aware of that. I just think of it as more important than technical or even emotional elements (although emotion is very high up on my list) when determining talent.

+1 I never understood the love for Winger. I also feel Reb was overhyped. Just because you are on the cover of Guitar Magazine doesn't give you a pass. Winger was worse then Whitesnake and that takes a special kind of band to be that awful.

I don't like Whitesnake, but I love John Sykes playing.

I guess i'll have to give them a pass for Steve Vai.

I'm not on that bandwagon. Vai gets on my nerves more than he impresses me.

They very well could have been. They imploded just when their popularity was shooting out of the atmosphere. The only thing stopping them from ruling the charts, stadiums and arena's the world 'round at that time, was their attitudes toward one another and substance abuse. They were pretty big when they broke up. Can't deny it.

But surely they wouldn't have been the biggest band, or ever were. I agree. I'm just saying that they did well back then.

And I knew a reunion of some sort would happen eventually. Doesn't excite me really. Cool I guess.

I'd take him over Reb Beach three ways to Sunday. Flex-able was an incredible instrumental record.

As far as GNR'S reunion, I saw them in their heyday with the Stones and they are a horrible live band from my standpoint. Appetite still holds up as a good rock n roll album. I never considered them a hair band either with regards to the debate. They always looked like they needed a shower and shot heroin, hair bands typically looked like they spent hours on their hair and were more about the skirts then their music.

Flex-able is the only one I like because he wasn't Satch 2.0 by that point. He was more like Zappa lite, which is much preferable to the usual "hey look, I can solo over this."

Back then, yes. Now days, no. Passion was fairly incredible too (so was Leftovers). After that it was all wank.

Pretty much validates my point about them not being very talented. Winger was, and is still good live.

I bought "Where The Wild Things Are" and couldn't get through most of it.

That’s interesting because I always felt that Winger’s popularity had more to do with Kip Winger’s good looks than anything else. I’ve likewise never liked Winger and always rated them not just below Guns ’n’ Roses, but below Motley Crue and even Poison, down in Warrant/Cinderella territory. Winger may well have been more skilled with their instruments—though not to a degree that makes them interesting to listen to for me—but to me their songwriting is not even close to Guns ’n’ Roses. And being able to produce good music is ultimately the talent I care about with musicians.

I also found Winger pretty damn boring. I know they are considered to be very talented but it always felt pretty light on my ears. I would rank them below Cinderella also no joke. I felt Motley Crue and GNR always got lumped in with some crappy bands and they really were just rock n roll bands. Going back to your statement about them being good as a complete unit I think thats a very valid statement. They at one point had some really great material and constructed some pretty damn good songs.

Nah, they got famous for being borderline pedo's.

All I care about is the guitar playing.

Winger...I could never stand that band and it wasn't until I started posting on the guitar forums I found there are more than a few that really dig the band, mostly due to Reb's playing. I can't knock the dude's playing, but it is Winger for ****'s sake! Stewart from Beavis and Butthead rocked a Winger shirt hahaha! Another thing that really led to my dislike was hearing Reb talk much crap in several interviews about Kirk Hammett due to the video of Lars, darts, and a Winger poster in the Nothing Else Matters video - Kirk has always come across as a really laid-back person and hearing Reb trash his playing was just pathetic coming from a dude who poofed his hair-up and played on such crap as Seventeen. That and ol' Kip making the ridiculous comment " I’ll ****ing challenge those chumps to a fight any day of the week, but we could play their music with our hands tied behind our back. "

lol

Would anybody be surprised if I said this is the first time I've heard of Winger?

Love Flex-able. 100% agree with Frownland about it and Vai. (mark your calendars folks!)

Beach's playing gets lost on way too many folks because of the Winger baggage BS. The dude is easily amongst the best of the slinger era guitarists technique wise (his melodic tapping is only rivaled by Vito Bratta and Steve Lynch). Plus as Plank noted he can reduce a fellow slinger to tears with his phrasing.

Many have heard this song as a joke but take a real listen to the main solo and then the outro. Un-freaking-believable stuff. Also a great showcase for Kip's vocals.

Its gonna remain lost on me. I find alot of the technique with two handed tapping to be boring and its all been done. I'd link Paul Gilbert as a better guitarist if I was to remain in the same genre of over technical players. I always preferred Tony Macalpine to all these guys being talked about. I think we have kind of got away from the original intent of the thread however as GNR really were never about technique and all about straight forward rock n roll.