YEah, but there's only, what, meh number of words for "darkness," and the same goes for the other things you've said. but I will take to heart with what you just said.

So I can't think up words for the life of me. I can get chords and songs down really easy. But the lyrics is what kills me every time. What I do write sounds good for the moment and probably the next five minutes. But it's so unlike what I would really say. My lyrics don't have any character behind them. All of the prose and stuff I've written for classes had a toune-in-cheek sense of humor but I can't seem to get that same effect in lyrics. Any ideas how to get even started on an idea?

Hum. Just... hum. Record your song and start humming something that sounds decent with the music. Once you aren't so worried about the words this putting words to music thing gets a LOT easier. Once you've figured out what you're humming and when, start throwing some words in there - a little at first, just words, then whole ideas... start peicing it together... voila a song. I say voila like it just happens... it doesn't be patient... be patient.

you can also make a recording of JUST the musical "humming" and than as its playing, write stuff down to fit it. my idea is vaguely similar to Crowe's just in another direction of how to do it.

I find this process helpful.

1) construct a melody (rhythm + pitch changes equals melody)
2)determine how many syllables you can break the melody into per repetition.
3) use words that fit into the syllable number.
4)for words you want to use that dont have the correct number of syllables, use synonyms. the more obscure, the more artsy sounding. unless theyre just weird sounding.



most helpful hint ever to me:

try to use short words. once you get past two syllables they get hard to work with.


oh, and don't use any cliches


and the more vague you are, the mysterious and creative you sound. haha. metaphors and similies are good things usually.

i generally don't care for narative songs much. there are always exceptions.

its always good to develope your chord progression first, then develop a melody. Once you have both of these then you will want to plan your song accordingly, such as any changes in key, tempo, or whatever. After you've done this, then come up with lyrics.

This may not be what works for you, but it works for me. this way once you're comming to the lyrics u have a framework to work the lyrics into, and other things dont need to change to fit the lyrics.

i want to see a song that explains why people use words ,. and if people dont understand that i dsont think their opinion really comes from being an expert or a person who understand music,., it is just from what other people think about you becuase you never can know what every one is really thinking,they dont have drawings and words to communicate with that are what we rerally think

Interesting read this thread is... mostly the first page. I generally don't think about the rules when writing my songs but it's cool to read through what was posted as I agree with most of it. Repeating words for one, actually repeating entire sections in music bugs the hell out of me. With a chorus I understand (as that is the hook) but when an artist/band repeats an entire verse, to me that is just lazy. An example of this is "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys... beautiful song (one of my fav's) but I wish it had a third verse that wasn't just a copy of the second.

Also, guitar solo's that just follow the melody line irritate me a bit.. but I'm sure there is a thread for that somewhere.

hmmmmm

if ur really into doing it a certain way
you could try to follow common practice rules
or a circle of fifths progression
lol

and i think it can be interesting when a guitar solo follows a melody line, but only when he adds something to it and resolves it differently than the melody does

Yes I agree, aspects of the melody showing up in the solo can work wonderfully, but when it's just a carbon copy of the melody (most of the solos on the green Weezer album) it seems very bland to me. I often think this is an easy way out for the guitar player.

So according to your tip, this would be creative and mysterious:

You did bad things
Things that are bad

END.

oooh!

Being vague brings less meaning to a song, making it less memorable and made up of 100% bull****.

Here's the best tip I've ever heard: Never try to rhyme when writing your song. The more you force a rhyme, the less meaning your song has.

Adding in rhymes afterwards is fine, but getting out the raw idea is by far more important than rhyming. I'm surprised no one mentioned this

I hate when a song doesn't rhyme correctly... a lot of rap artists do this. To me when you can get your point across while keeping the correct rhyming scheme/flow that is a good song.

Just getting it in the vicinity of the rhyme without really rhyming always sounds amateur to me. I would rather the word not rhyme at all then to almost rhyme.

my only tip is take lots and lots of drugs

are the drugs to cope in case your song sucks?

If your song sucks, then yes

14. Play each song to your friends in its most simple form, melody/lyrics/chords, before progressing. - If they don't give you an adamant thumbs up and tell you that this song could make you famous or something to that effect, the song is probably rubbish. Ask them which bits they like and which they don't, so you can identify what makes the song good and what makes it boring.

15. Please use some dynamic variation at some point. - Particularly in loud songs, put some quiet bits in and some parts that are more moderate on the volume front.

16. If you find yourself writing a song which sounds like it would fit over a sickening, life-affirming cafe scene in Smallville, or the OC or some other **** like that then stop and think about where you life has gone wrong and what you can do to stop being such an asshat.

my 2 cents (for any Canadians on here, note that my 2 cents are still worth slightly more than yours, ;-)

MEANING - Don't waste your time here, never think about what you want to say ! Brilliant college students write brilliant essays every day, and nobody reads them. noone cares how brilliant you are. But if you start with a line that flows off the tongue and support it with other lines and just let it develop on its own it will often develop meaning on its own. and oftentimes way more profound and than anything you or I could come up with. It should ask questions as much as answer them. It's NOT AN ESSAY ! Oh, and one other thing. You don't have to agree with the meaning, you can open up a whole new world of songwriting by writing from someone elses perspective, even someone fictional. (??- But then it wouldn't be about ME ??!) yep, that's the point.

CLICHE - always bad, however if you can take a well known worn out phrase and alter it slightly it can be effective. Sorry the only reference I can think of here is country. George Strait - Blue Clear Sky. If they would have used the standard 'clear, blue sky' it just wouldn't have been much of a tune, u dig ?

rhymes - I actually really dig the almost ryhmes, if they flow off the tongue. something like "just got paid .... find my way". another one that works is to have the ryhme scheme words ryhme but with different syllables. i.e. - "just got paid.... lemonade".

same words - I also dig using the same words, but only internally and not in the same position i.e.- I work all day in the hot sun....... my baby wants me to get the work done.

consonance - can be used to great affect. i.e.- I borrowed a dollar from a bum on the street........ threw it in a barrel and burned it for heat.

p.s.- none of these are meant to be great lyrics, just illustrating each point, lol.

i wrote a song years ago which seems to have a lot of repeating. i would like your opinion on it.

everybodys changing.
verse 1
when i was young i use to know, people use to tell me about the way that i should go.
everybody else was doing just the same people use to show me how to play the game.
bridge
everytime i,d ever feel so down,
you were always hanging around
and no one else would ever know your name
cause everbody was doing the same.
chorus
everybodys changing in this ever changing atmosphere and everything is going to be ok.
everybodys changing in this ever changing atmoosphere and everything is gonna be alright.
well where changing in this ever changing atmosphere its almost here its coming on throughout the night.
verse 2
now that i'm older and i know thats- not always how the way things go.
everytime you think your coming to the end, just when you get there youve gotta start all over again.
bridge.
i know theres one thing i have found that through all these changes ive come back around to the very place where i begun now i know im not the only one.
repeat chorus.
theres another verse but i cant remeber.
in writing it i can see theres a lot of repeating. what do you think. thanks steve.

I think it could use some more imagery. It just sounds like a sad sap feeling a little happier.

the returning.

well i'm looking through a klidascope at a distant world so far away and i cant tell which way its turning.

all around is empty space and the living have left no trace and all the desert lands are burning.

can you tell me what will be , what we'll know and what we'll see and is there any lessons we are learning.
cause nows the time to pay our dues, nows the time for us to choose and get ready for the returning.
verse 2.

as the days go ticking by i sit and often wonder why, who are we and why are we here.
as the time gets close at hand i begin to understand as the haze begins to clear.
repeat chorus.
chorus ext
and a light came from the skies and the heavens opened wide to hear a mighty choir.
to get ready and set us free to get ready for the returning.

it is nice that u have a very specific theme for ur song.
i made the mistake of not working one out before i started writing lyrics and WHAM its a mess now.....so i have to change gears with it................

I like it, it sounds like a folk song... or thats what I hear when I read it.. a sound similar to "Paranoia in Bb Major" by the Avett Brothers.

The most important thing to me when writing songs is to have a clear idea of your topic or main idea. And to re-read your song over and over again picturing yourself reading it for the first time, to make sure your conveying at least vaguely to your audience your original topic or main idea. Its okay if some people don't understand at first, but they should after you explain it.

[QUOTE=DontRunMeOver;274135]8. Know exactly what the song is about

When compared to most poetry and other creative forms of language, songs are short and sweet. As lyrics must be singable and need to leave space for the music, a song will typically contain no more than a couple of hundred words (I would estimate my songs have about 150 words on average, some maybe reach about 300, but not much more).

This limit benefits the musical side of the song and it means that there is very little room for faffing about when it comes to getting your point across. You have a few hundred words to tell your story, or to convey your emotion, or to paint whatever picture you want the listener to get.

Thus it is vital that you know exactly what you're going to write about before you start writing the lyrics, so that you're well prepare to communicate the message you want within the short time available. If you have a clear idea of what you want to say, then all you need to do is render this idea into the form of a song. Plus, if you have a clear idea of what you're saying, the listener will be more likely to have a clear idea of what is being said to them. If you aren't sure what your song is about, the listener has no chance.




i think there is a lot to be said for writing without clear intent, and ambiguity...why do you need to know what its about, and songs mean different things to different people. writing with a clearly defined topic can be a stifling approach as it takes away any non-linear, absurdist, surreal and subliminal stories

the best stories in songs i have written have always come when writing idly without a topic.

over-intellectualising will only cloud the matter


rough rhyme is one of the most fantastic things in the world
it lends an assonance to the phrase that gives some of the flow of conventional rhyme but avoids the bland nature of most rhyme. Listen to any of the "great" songwriters to see countless examples

You know after I posted that Fire I sort of regretted saying it. I don't mind ALL rhymes that aren't exactly rhymes but it just bugs me when it sounds forced is what I was getting at. After I posted that I was listening to something where it was a "rough rhyme" as you put it, and it was actually quite clever.

Oh ok i get more what you mean
yeah that force the syllables into rhyme thing is awful
but two similar words with common assonance works quite well

hahaha i was writing this song and the first line was cool, but i didnt know where to go. so it ended up being this really weird song about an epic battle that involves two people stronger than the gods and blah blah blah blah blah.
i ended up ripping up the whole thing and starting over. its an anti war song now.

but i used some really really weird rhymes in it.....................

post it.

naw. i got pissed at it and scratched the whole thing. it was pretty bad. a few days of letting it sit and i tossed it out the window. it was in such bad condition not even life support woulda helped

ahh, yeah... can't save em all.

hahahha
unless ur my japanese buddy named umi
he apparently remembers every lyric he's ever written.

Umi rocks.

the kid built a lap steel from scratch and also took a 100 dollar squire and customized it himself. the kid is amazing.

oh and that picture u have with brian may and his guitar there?
brian may is his hero. umi knows every little detail of everything (gear wise) brian may ever played.

in other words he's a freak with a queen fetish.

that umi sounds killer
brian may is frickin awesome

hahaha yea

brian may does great solos. they're so well thought out and never do more than they need to, which is exactly what they need to do. i think that one of the keys to soloing over a song is just that.
when theres a good solo thats flashy and showy and is really awesome with a song, thats what the song calls for.

WOW, I admire anybody who can build their own instrument and make it sound amazing.
Nice, yeah I love that pic... to me it just embodies what he was all about. He created his own sound by building his own guitar and playing it differently then anybody else... him and Freddie were an awesome blend of sounds. Deacon and Taylor were great as well... Deacon especially, awesome bassist/song writer. I did a bit of research on how Brian got his sound but never went too far into the workings of his guitar, I do own the burns version of it and I have fun with it.
exactly. He said in an interview he tries to avoid just playing the vocal melody as a solo because most of the time it's lame. He always searched for that counter melody that wasn't there from the start but felt like home when it was.

ok lyric help.

i rhymed around with ground and the context is:

I still dont get around
the ****'s still on the ground

or something like that. yea......help please?

lyrics are mainly about delivery...

hmmmm.....that is true........oh well i'll let it sit for a bit.

Meh....I kinda think we should reserve this thread for songwriting tips alone.