sorry i keep crapping in your thread but again, i have a really hard time calling Jane's Addiction funk rock (especially not Jane Says). i think they got lumped into the style because they didn't fit anywhere else and 'alternative' rock hadn't become an MTV word of the day.

Been Caught Stealing is on the funky side but it's almost like anything from the 90s where the guitar isn't strummed in straight time is being considered 'funk rock' and i think it's rather ridiculous. yes there were plenty of bands with some funk elements to them and JA was one, but that's it, they had some elements of it - about as much as Led Zeppelin (The Crunge is funky - should LZ be listed as funk rock next?)

Yes I agree with you on the Funk side, but Funk Rock has the individual 'Rock' element also, funk is not in any way (in my opinion) a dominant genre over rock to any major degree concerning funk rock.
Thats what always impressed me the most about the Isley Brothers and Funkadelic/Parliament, the 'rock guitar' with these two bands are as equal to the funk aspect musically.
These guitar players were not only rivals to Jimi Hendrix, but also directly influenced by him.
Janes Addiction is only considered as an influence to funk rock, not in any way trying to imply they are 'Funk Rock'.

i see where you're coming from now, but i think funk rock was already well established by the time Jane's got big enough to be noticed outside of LA.

To be honest Dave, the opinion that JA influenced todays funk rock comes from wikipedia, I believe.
So you know how that is..like you've stated before Dave "wkipedia is not always completely accurate", which is an opinion that I tend to agree with.
You know, somehow I think that 'Funk Rock' or some form of style closely related to the funk genre anyway, is far from hitting its 'peak' yet, funk has really only been accepted by the masses (musically) in the last 20 years or so, for example, five or ten years ago, If I suggested that certain songs within different genres outside the funk genre, like say 'country' for instance,
"had a nice funk groove to it", the suggestion would be laughed at or completely ignored, as having no viability.
I kind of see the RHCPs as the 'first' real 'Funk Rock' band, and everything before that was still within process musically (influence).

yeah i see where you're coming from. the thing is there always seem to be a little funk out there it just never makes it to the top of the pile before breaking apart. regardless of the generation. it always gets a little too bland as it gets closer to mainstream acceptance. the masses can only handle the funk in small doses hehehe

Haha so true...

I agree that funk can get very repetitious, as so do alot of other genre's & sub-genre's. Bass guitar was rarely ever as prominent in popular music as it is today, especially since the 90s, which can be a positive in one aspect, or negative in another.
I will admit, I do get a little excited when I hear a lead guitarist play something that is more on the 'artistic' side, with todays music.

agreed. it's freaking awesome when a little bit of the good sh!t squeezes through into the mainstream. the only problem is there are always some vultures and mimics ready to milk it. i think the last time funky 'rock' music came close to mainstream prevalence was with the Dave Matthew's Band and they totally encapsulate my earlier theory about funk getting blander as it gets more popular.

there's no denying the rhythm section of the DMB can be incredibly funky, but it lacks the dirtiness of real uncut funk. it's something Flea tried expressing to no end in his interviews in the 80s - playing funk was about being dirty, it was about releasing it all with little or no regard on how it came across because you knew deep down inside that the funk was pure.

but as it gets closer to mainstream acceptance, more fingers touch the pie, too many spoons stir the soup, and your left with a mess of the kind of bland watered down funk that goes nowhere besides away.

Who would you recommend as far as good, uncut, dirty funk goes? I've heard a decent amount of the well-known 70s funk bands but they never struck me as dirty sounding so I'm guessing they're not who you're talking about.

actually i'd call a lot of the 70s stuff dirty. i'm talking more like overall tone and feel, not necessarily raunchiness. we both know 'feel' is a hard thing to peg down, but it's like the difference between using a horn section or a synth, or to compose every roll and change rather than loosely jam out around basic ideas.

or just think back to any other time you find yourself wanting to use the terms 'juicy fart bass' and odds are you're hearing something i'd be calling the good dirty stuff hahahaha.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking dirty=rauchy. I assumed you were talking about the feel. I'm curious who you'd recommend though as most funk I've heard has a pretty clean sound to me.

dunno, i'm not hearing clean when i listen to most of the big names from the 70s, especially not their earlier material. dunno, maybe we just interpret things differently.

this track's been posted a few times (and covered by Soundgarden on their first ep) but if this doesn't sound like dirty funk to you then i don't know what else to say.

YouTube - ‪Ohio Players- Fopp (vinyl)‬‎

Yeah, I own that song. I suppose I could see how you might describe it as dirty.

What I was really looking for though is recommendations for some great funk that I've never heard before. :)

oh, in that case i think you're out of luck hehe i'm not 'that' well versed in the finer points of the style. i dig on the big names and while i might post like i've always got more up my sleeve i'm generally just trying to provoke more conversation (though my sleeve isn't always empty either).

besides, i don't think the funk underground was nearly as prolific as the styles that would follow, they were chronologically a little ahead of the DIY curve.

Lenny Kravitz (or) The RHCP's (Funk Rock)?
 

I will have to wait awhile myself, as to reflect more on the music and the subject concerning these two bands, I will take a wild guess :rolleyes: that the RHCP's might have the most going for them, and then again, I could be surprised and find out that Lenny Kravitz could be the more talented band of the two?
Like I stated, I will give my opinion later on, into the thread. ;)

I'm not entierly sure why you chose to match these two, but thats not the point.

Obviously RHCP has a much larger back catalog. Though I think Maroon 5 is flying well below the national radar. The second album was sustained but I think that new song Misery is just as good as the first few hits they had. I expect really good things from them in the future.

I say this because I know MB and their going to **** all over M5, but I don't think its deserved.

Theres not a whole lot of Funk Rock bands that I am very familiar with to be honest, one of the reasons I posted this thread was so maybe I might learn something more about the genre, what other funk rock band would be a better comparison to the RHCPs?, maybe we could get a moderator to change the Title of the thread

Nah, just go with it at this point. But silence around here means they were so offended by the comparison that they aren't even weighing in. If anyone else answers, its going to be an RHCP tidal wave.

Yeah, I agree.
It will all be RHCPs all the way.., I was just hoping there would be a few Maroon 5 fans that would post and give an opinion, oh well..we'll see.:p:

Well the issue M5 have is that they have some radio friendly songs. I don't know what about the dive-bar crowd means you can't like the radio, but you know me, i still think they're rebelling against their authoritative fathers.

I think their a band to watch. 10 years from now, it will be interesting to see where they end up.

Lenny Kravitz (or) RHCP's (Funk Rock) ?
 

I will take a wild guess :rolleyes: that the RHCP's might have the most going for them as far as more fan's, but in my personal opinion, I think that Lenny Kravitz is the more talented artist and has the best music of the two.
Lenny Kravitz's career took off in '91, and the RHCP's started in 1983/84.
I dont think that the RHCP's are even close to Kravitz, in any genre or era period. ;)
So..a moderator might as well close this thread! End Of Story.

YouTube - Lenny Kravitz, :"It Ain't Over Till It's Over"

YouTube - Lenny Kravitz, "I Belong To You"

YouTube - Lenny Kravitz "Fly Away"

Im glad you mentioned the next 10 years Big3, I like maybe 3 0r 4 of their song's so far, I would like to see them produce some good music in the future, I might mention, Maroon 5 has great stage presence.
(Is your pick for Lenny Kravitz Big3) ? over The Red Hot Chli Peppers.

Posted this in 'Latest album downloaded' thread and sad that it didn't get more responses especially regarding this thread. This IS Funk Rock to the max. Sensational track. 70's Funk Rock FTW.

That's an excellent song, Jackhammer. It's about as bluesy as it is funky though, no?

After watching the first clip (love the footage of his left nostril at 2:40 :D), I'm thinking he should call himself Lenny G because I don't see how something that tame and polished can be considered funk next to this.



Awesome, that main riff is so simple yet so mesmerising.

Ah, the stuffy types like Pitchfork who deride the Chili Peppers for being obnoxious, attention whores who wanted fame too badly should really watch more clips like that one posted above. It's about the funk, and the attention (at least early on in their career) was part of their showmanship. It's what made them who they are. Somebody has to do it that way, and they are one of the best ever...

Come on Bro, the RHCP's are nothing more than 'noise' compared to real funk music and artist, they can get funky but I would in no way suggest that they are funk, they're not that good! lol.. :rolleyes:

That^is a good definition for describing Funk music. :)

Try and ignore the dire video. It was the only one I could find apart from a live version, but the quality was nowhere near as good.
Turn up the volume, open another window and browse MB for the next 6 minutes instead...

Isley Brothers - Midnight Sky.
Amazing track.

Funk can't be "noisy"? Funk at its core is "dirty" and "noisy", not clean and overproduced...

Sorry, I meant funk rock (not funk). And like V&F says, funk (and especially funk rock) is inherently dirty and raw... once it becomes too slick, it's heading into disco territory. That's not to say that funk can't be smooth and well-produced as bands like Pleasure and the Brothers Johnson demonstrate - but even then, the funk is still undoubtedly there (see this track for example). That Kravitz video you posted strikes me a mildly groovy pop song and I don't see how you can consider him real funk while discounting RHCP who had songs like this:



Pretty much... and while RHCP is hardly the be all and end all of funk it really annoys me when elitists proclaim that they're not the real thing and should therefore be shunned. Would people honestly prefer it if they'd become just another generic funk band stuck in the 70s instead of bringing something new to the table as they did?


Ah, the Isley Brothers are fantastic and that song is no exception.

I dont know what you mean by "Funk at its core is dirty and noisy", if you mean the RHCP's style, then yes, I consider the RHCP's are more of a Punk Funk/Rap Rock band anyway.
Artist like Lenny Kravitz, Prince, & Maroon 5, just to name a few that are classified within the Funk Rock genre are not dirty and noisy sounding, dont get me wrong, the RHCP's have done alot in helping to bring the Funk Rock genre more mainstream and I am not trying to discount the RHCP's music, I am only trying to point out that most traditional (Funk) is not noisy and dirty sounding as suggested.
But then on the other hand, you have Jimi Hendrix, (whom most consider him as one of the main innovators of the Funk Rock genre), what I find when most people are discussing the subject of Funk Rock, they mainly describe the Funk part and say nothing about the Rock aspect of the genre itself, would'nt Rock be where the noisy and dirty sound originates more so than the Funk aspect. :)

Who do you consider the quintessential funk artists?

The Isley Brothers would have to be my favorite, and not only because they are from Cincy, Ohio.
They are my favorite combination of funk and electric guitar, these guys were ahead of there time in my opinion, of course they were rivals to Jimi Hendrix and influenced by Hendix's music also.
The Brothers Johnson is a favorite, some of the best (clean) funk bass guitar to this day.
I always liked the Ohio Players, Rick James, Commodores, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Sly & The Family Stone, Average White Band, Parliment/Funkadelic, James Brown, and Herbie Han**** had some good funk back in the day, although his music is mostly jazz orientated.
Most of my favorites are already imbeded here in the Soul & Funk forum, just scan through the threads.

And are those artists clean and generally well produced? Or do they have a certain "down and dirty" attitude towards their music?

I am mainly talking about sound/music, what does a down & dirty attitude have to do with funk music, and to answer your question, yes most of the artist mentioned are clean and well produced, espeacially the Brothers Johnson, I really dont understand why you insist that a down & dirty attitude is what defines funk music and artist more so than good dynamics and production . :confused: I admit there is a certain attitude that is associated with every genre of music, and I guess funk music would want a person to get down & dirty on the dance floor so you would be correct to a certain extent, it doesnt mean that funk music itself isnt well produced musically.

Yes, the Chili Peppers sped up the tempo and took the dirtiness to the extreme, but they still played plenty of pure funk, especially on Freaky Styley. They were white though, so I apologize for that if it looks goofy...

"dirty" to me means difficult to distinguish when talking about musical production. I think grunge is dirty. Funk is sometimes dorty, but the interplay of the rhtythm section, including guitars and keys, etc is usually well-defined, which is part of its appeal

Infectious Grooves FTW:

I beat you to the punch on one of the first pages haha, but yes excellent choice...