NHL Thread

[lucifer_sam]

Originally Posted by anticipation

It must be nice being in the East, what with all those teams getting into the playoffs without actually, you know, earning it. The East is a joke, the top teams stroll through the first rounds without breaking a sweat while the real teams in the West have to fight for every game. Of course the ECC has an advantage over the WCC, they've been basically scrimmaging for a month while we've been playing clutch and grab hockey and travelling obscene amounts of distance, not to mention timezones.

Don't say shit like that, I nearly died from laughing so hard.

If by that you mean the top teams in the East are better than the ones in the West, sure. Chi-town clears up their goaltending issues in the playoffs they have a solid chance of going far, maybe winning the Cup. The only issue is that the Capitals will embarrass anyone in the West they meet, their offense is simply too strong for even Thornton/Murderface/Marleau to match.

[OctaneHugo]

Oh, yeah, the Flyers didn't earn to get in the playoffs - it's not like they earned 88 points or anything, or beat a rival 2-1 in a game that required a shootout to make it in. Or that the Bruins won games at the end to make it as a 6 seed, or that the Canadians fought tooth and nail near the end to scrape it in as an 8 seed.

But those ****ty teams in the West that earned those bottom slots - Stanley Cup contenders. They could sweep anybody in the East easy. 8-0 every game.

How about Phoenix? Think they deserve to be in? Oh, wait, they're in the West. Of course they do.

The West, overall, is better than the East. I believe that. But the top teams in each conference? The East has the upper hand.

By the by, I believe the Coyotes do deserve to be in the playoffs.

[anticipation]

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Don't say shit like that, I nearly died from laughing so hard.

If by that you mean the top teams in the East are better than the ones in the West, sure. *Chi-town clears up their goaltending issues in the playoffs they have a solid chance of going far, maybe winning the Cup. *The only issue is that the Capitals will embarrass anyone in the West they meet, their offense is simply too strong for even Thornton/Murderface/Marleau to match.

Well, let's just take a look at the facts shall we?

If the league was formatted in a way that would put the 16 best teams in the playoffs, as opposed to the best 8 in each conference, this is what we'd be looking at:

1. Washington
2. San Jose
3. Chicago
4. Phoenix
5. Vancouver
6. New Jersey
7. Detroit
8. Pittsburgh
9. Los Angeles
10. Nashville
11. Buffalo
12. Colorado
13. Ottawa
14. Boston
15. St. Louis
16. Anaheim

That's 10 from the West and 6 from the East. Isn't that strange? Especially when you consider the fact that Eastern Conference teams, such as your beloved Washington, get to pad their stats by facing teams like Toronto, Atlanta, Carolina, Tampa Bay, and Florida several times a season. I'll admit, Washington's goal differential isn't too shabby when they're facing AHL equivilents 18-20 times a year. Let them face real competition, and then we'll see if their numbers hold up. I would wager a schedule that includes more inter-conference play and a revised playoff format would yield a fraction of capable Eastern teams.

The idea that any team in the East will steamroll over a Western conference team is laughable. Of the 16 teams I've listed, only 3 EC teams are .500 or over against the West. Those teams include the Caps (10-8), the Sabres (10-8), and the Sens (9-9). Do those numbers sound dominant to you? If so, you might want to get your head checked. Extrapolate that to a best-of-seven series that includes travel and time changes and you've got a pretty fair draw. But wait, let's take a look at the Western elite's records against the East:

San Jose 12-6
Chicago 11-7
Vancouver 13-5
Phoenix 11-7
Detroit 9-9

And that's just the elite. Throw in the other four WC (who, by the way, are all .500 or over), and you've got 10 squads who've shown just how "good" the East really are against true competiton.

The idea that the top teams in the East, by which I'm assuming you mean to be Washington, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, and maybe Buffalo, are better than their Western counterparts, i.e. San Jose, Chicago, Phoenix, Vancouver, and Detroit, is unsubstantiated to say the least. I'm betting anyone with a passing interest in the actual GAME OF HOCKEY, by which I mean one who follows the entire league as opposed to relying on East Coast bias to get them through their lives, would agree that the top teams in the West would decimate ANY EC team with ease in a first-round matchup. *However, the fact that the only playoff series between East and West occurs in the finals allows these weaker Eastern teams to hide behind lopsided series between wannabes (Philadelphia, Montreal, Boston) and teams with actual skill. The edge given to the eventual Eastern Conf. winners is evident in the minimal travel, those previously mentioned lackluster teams, and the lack of elite goaltending/defense corps contrasted by the major influx of high-level offensive talent from the Q and Europe. The East has always been run-and-gun, and it's not changing anytime soon.

I'm not saying that the Eastern elite aren't worthy opponents, I'm saying that the Eastern Conference as a group is a joke. If you truly believe otherwise, you'll have to prove your inane position to anyone with even a modicum of knowledge regarding the true disparity between the East and West.

[anticipation]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

Oh, yeah, the Flyers didn't earn to get in the playoffs - it's not like they earned 88 points or anything, or beat a rival 2-1 in a game that required a shootout to make it in. Or that the Bruins won games at the end to make it as a 6 seed, or that the Canadians fought tooth and nail near the end to scrape it in as an 8 seed.

See below:

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

But those ****ty teams in the West that earned those bottom slots - Stanley Cup contenders. They could sweep anybody in the East easy. 8-0 every game.

****ty? Let's see, take a look at the win totals of the bottom-rung of the West:

Nashville: 47
LA: 46
Detroit: 44
Colorado: 43

As compared to those of the East:

Ottawa: 44
Philadelphia: 41
Boston: 39
Montreal: 39

What do you see there? Western conference teams have more wins than Eastern conference teams, so I guess that means your Sens, Flyers, Bruins, and Habs are all ****ty as well then? But wait, take the standings up two slots to the 3 and 4 seeds and you've got Pittsburgh with 47 and Buffalo with 45. So what does that tell us? Perhaps that your feeble mind relates standings points, which include charity points given in OT and shootout (better known as the bull**** skills competiton), to skill. Winning is the only thing that matters in true competiton.

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

How about Phoenix? Think they deserve to be in? Oh, wait, they're in the West. Of course they do.

Well yeah, there's that. Or maybe the fact that they've won 50 games this season? I don't know, what do you think?

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

The West, overall, is better than the East. I believe that. But the top teams in each conference? The East has the upper hand.

Of course you do, you're primary relationship with the game is purely based on seeing the Eastern elite play. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean your opinion is worth **** to people with any brains at all though.

[OctaneHugo]

Originally Posted by anticipation

What do you see there? Western conference teams have more wins than Eastern conference teams, so I guess that means your Sens, Flyers, Bruins, and Habs are all ****ty as well then? But wait, take the standings up two slots to the 3 and 4 seeds and you've got Pittsburgh with 47 and Buffalo with 45.

That can mean a wide variety of things. Such as the East is, actually, better overall than the West, since by all logic teams like the Bruins and Flyers should have been further up - yet they weren't. But in the West the Coyotes are the 4 seed and the Kings and Predators are both in the playoffs - while decent teams, none of those are more than an 7 or 8 at highest, let alone a 4. So it's not much of a stretch to shout that the West is garbage at the bottom and the East is so stacked up-and-down that teams couldn't win as easily. After all, the West had 6 teams over 100 points and one directly on the spot; they beat up on the horrible bottom teams while in the East there were a lot of really good teams. Check out the statistics for the bottom rung teams in both conferences - the East has "better" stats.

By the way, I like cynicism - I don't think every team at the 6-8 spots is ****ty. But if I did, it still wouldn't be as bad as thinking an entire conference was terrible.

Originally Posted by anticipation

So what does that tell us? Perhaps that your feeble mind relates standings points, which include charity points given in OT and shootout (better known as the bull**** skills competiton), to skill.

Baww more about the shootout. I'm all for a full overtime period, but implying that OTL shouldn't result in points? Do you even realize why they started giving 1 point for OTLs? Because teams weren't ****ing trying to win in overtime! They'd hold the puck and dilly dally around the blue line - which today would result in more shootouts. Oh, but you don't like those, so I guess we need ties. Oh, great, ties. That'll attract revenue for the sport and make those games way more exciting. Or we can just have multiple overtimes so teams are more aggressive. That sounds awesome! Except that'll never happen for a variety of reasons. I'm not the biggest fan of shootouts, but they can be fun and as long as they're only in the regular season that's perfectly fine since that's the best you're going to get. I don't want to just turn games off if they go to OT since I know both teams will just play for ties. Of course, you could just award no points for a tie...

Originally Posted by anticipation

Winning is the only thing that matters in true competiton.

Teams win shootouts.

Originally Posted by anticipation

Well yeah, there's that. Or maybe the fact that they've won 50 games this season? I don't know, what do you think?

Uh, I think that all the teams currently in the playoffs deserve to be in the playoffs because they played well enough to be there?

Originally Posted by anticipation

Of course you do, you're primary relationship with the game is purely based on seeing the Eastern elite play. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean your opinion is worth **** to people with any brains at all though.

>Implying people who root for the Western Conference teams are intellectually superior to those rooting for Eastern Conference teams

Oh, by the way, way to also tell everyone that Western Fans are bigger into hockey. Harhar! They sure do love hockey out there in Phoenix and Los Angeles, don't they?

[pourmeanother]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

Oh, by the way, way to also tell everyone that Western Fans are bigger into hockey. Harhar! They sure do love hockey out there in Phoenix and Los Angeles, don't they?

Harhar yourself. Maybe you've forgotten about the Southeast Division, which is largely an attendance laughing stock. The Kings essentially matched the Bruins' attendance, and had more fans show up than both the Penguins and Devils. Seven of the top fifteen home attendance records were Western Conference teams (including six of the top ten), hardly call that a sweeping victory. Take off the rose colored glasses my friend and look at the real, tangible facts.

[anticipation]

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

That can mean a wide variety of things. Such as the East is, actually, better overall than the West, since by all logic teams like the Bruins and Flyers should have been further up - yet they weren't. But in the West the Coyotes are the 4 seed and the Kings and Predators are both in the playoffs - while decent teams, none of those are more than an 7 or 8 at highest, let alone a 4.

What does this even mean? Phoenix and L.A. have more wins and more points than basically the entire Eastern Conference, and they aren't "more than a 7 or 8 at highest"? What are you talking about? This isn't the BCS, you can't just arbitrarily award teams playoff positions based on a whim.

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

So it's not much of a stretch to shout that the West is garbage at the bottom and the East is so stacked up-and-down that teams couldn't win as easily. After all, the West had 6 teams over 100 points and one directly on the spot; they beat up on the horrible bottom teams while in the East there were a lot of really good teams. Check out the statistics for the bottom rung teams in both conferences - the East has "better" stats.

Wow, I'm kind of shocked at how thoroughly you've misinterpreted statistics. It's actually kind of amazing, in a sick way. You're saying that the Western elite benefit from a poor bottom rung of teams, and that the East doesn't? Let's see, the Western Conference teams who didn't make the playoffs are:

St Louis Blues: 90pts, 9-7-2 vs East
Calgary Flames: 90pts, 11-5-2 vs East
Anaheim Ducks: 89pts, 9-7-2 vs East
Dallas Stars: 88pts, 7-9-2 vs East
Minnesota Wild: 84pts, 10-4-4 vs East
Columbus Blue Jackets: 70pts, 8-7-3 vs East
Edmonton Oilers: 62pts, 7-9-2 vs East

Of these teams, only CBJ and EDM are below .500 clubs. If the Blues, Flames, Ducks, and Stars were in the East, they'd be in the playoffs right now, even though they've had to play against top competition in the West. Even the teams who aren't in the WCP have good-to-decent records against the East, while the same can't be said for the bottom of the Eastern Conference. I'd love for you to find a single statistic that supports the idea that Western elite teams benefit from playing sub-par competition, because the truth of the matter is that the Eastern elite builds up point totals thanks to teams like Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Florida, Toronto, and the New York Islanders, who, aside from Atlanta, all happen to be below .500 teams. The East has better stats at the bottom, do they? Where? In what category? Goal differential? Don't think so. Regulation wins? I'm not seeing it. Help me out, will ya?

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

Teams win shootouts.

Sure, and that really indicates team strength, defensive skill, and fair competition right? I mean, hockey is really just about putting the puck in the net, and all other aspects are basically unimportant? I guess not, considering the fact that teams get rewarded for losing.

Originally Posted by OctaneHugo

Oh, by the way, way to also tell everyone that Western Fans are bigger into hockey. Harhar! They sure do love hockey out there in Phoenix and Los Angeles, don't they?

Yeah, as a matter of fact they do. I don't see Lightning fans banding together to save their franchise like the Yotes faithful did, and I don't see Atlanta, Florida, or the Islanders having too high of attendance rates either. You've got about 4 teams in the East that don't want, let alone deserve a franchise in their cities, and you're talking about the West?

[lucifer_sam]

All your statements support is that there's a bigger differential of talent in the East than in the West. So what, it's not news to me. I know the Southeastern Division is awful, but the Capitals didn't get where they are simply by beating up on every team in that division. Compare this to, say, the Atlantic Division and you'll see half the East's playoff spots accounted for. There was also a MUCH tighter race for seeds 6-8 and 2-4 than in the West (it was practically fair game a little over a week ago) despite the larger first-eighth point differential.

Bigger news: Penguins are 0-4-1 against the Capitals this season and 0-6-0 against the Devils (that's an 18-point swing on the Capitals, 24 point swing on the Devils) while still being the de jure 3rd seed in the East. See either the Capitals or Devils going down early and there's a heavy chance Crosby may be lifting the silver come June. I'm not entirely convinced it won't happen.

EDIT: Just a bit more statistical explanation for the above. Removing those two series from the Penguins' schedule and you've got 100 points over 71 games. Extrapolate this to 82 games and you've got 115 points across a season without playing the Capitals or Devils with only 7 OTL. That's good enough to clinch a division title and have more points than the San Jose Sharks.

[Thrice]

Maybe you guys should hold off until someone holds the Stanley, then we will see who is better. Stats dont mean too much in the playoffs. The whole season is prep time for the next couple months.

I'm just glad half the East is Buffalo's NE division.

[pourmeanother]

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