the official **** the vikings thread

Sparky · 09-11-2013, 12:47 PM

Kyle Rudolph has great hands, and thats really about it. This is pretty interesting, it's trent dilfers critique of ponder when we drafted him:

Quote:

[Ponder's] drop, his arm speed, everything about him ... it's one tempo," Dilfer said. "He has to play at the 7-on-7 tempo. The drop has to be rhythmical. The receivers have to be open. The ball goes one speed. The pocket has to be nice. Any time he's asked to quicken that up or there's people around him, his accuracy is awful. ...

"The great quarterbacks are as accurate going to [options] two, three and four as they are when you go to one. ... Christian Ponder, as soon as you get to two or three, the ball is dirting. It's high. It's all over the place. OK?. He plays with a lot of anxiety. Do you want your quarterback in the NFL to play with a lot of anxiety?

"Christian Ponder tests off the charts. He's in shorts and a t-shirt. He goes to his pro workout, he's in shorts and a t-shirt. His big pecs are hanging out. He's got big guns. He looks great. He's a good-looking young man and he spins that ball around the football field in a perfect environment and people go 'wow he can play.

If there is anyone who would know about being a ****ty qb its dilfer right? Jokes aside i think he's pretty on point.

Heres my worst-case scenario for the season:

Erin Henderson is not a suitable middle linebacker, meaning our cover 2 will be consistently exploited. Josh Robinson will not be able to cover the slot, nor be an effective run stopper like Winfield. Teams will continue to run up the middle even with williams return, he is old and will have limited snaps upon return.

AP will see more success but not close to his production last year. Ponder will continue to have the worst quarterback rating against teams who stack an 8 men front in preparation for the run.

Ponder and his receiving core will have some chemistry towards the end of the season but still underwhelming.

Thom Yorke · 09-11-2013, 01:34 PM

I always hear people saying Rudolph has good speed, but I don't think I've ever seen that. He seems really slow out there to me, even as a TE.

Not that bad of an analysis from Dilfer.

Forward To Death · 09-11-2013, 08:53 PM

You're selling Jennings and Rudolph way short. Jennings has been a #1 for several years, and the fact that good QBs like Aaron Rodgers like to throw to him more than any other guy on their team says it all. It's the same thing you hear about Reggie Wayne. Of course a #1 receiver needs a good QB throwing to him, that's just the way the game works.

You can say Rudolph is overrated all you want, he's still one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL.

Forward To Death · 09-14-2013, 01:23 AM

What's up with Desmond Bishop? Are we gonna use this guy or what, he seems like he'd be perfect for keeping the run in check.

Can't seem to find an injury report on him.

Gotta beat the Bears this week.

Thom Yorke · 09-15-2013, 12:37 PM

Jesus Christ this team looks bad. It's an absolute miracle that they're only down by 3 right now.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 09-16-2013, 11:35 AM

forward to death i hear what you are sayin but i think you are over selling jennings and rudoplh. realistically maybe they are somewhere between where we are both rating them. i think jennings is on the lower half of #1 WRs. then again i am spoiled as a falcons fan with having roddy and julio.

vikes should have won that game yesterday. more bad throws by ponder and just bad defense at the end when they had a chance to win it. there was a 1-on-1 interview thing between peterson and curt menefee though that was really cool, so check that out if you vikes fans get a chance

Sparky · 09-16-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Jesus Christ this team looks bad. It's an absolute miracle that they're only down by 3 right now.

Yup. At least cordoralle is real, and harrison smith keeps getting better.

Our linebacker situation is not good. Greenway is very much in the decline, he seemed out of position a lot, not making tackles everywhere like he used to.

I'm hoping the return of felton may help the running game.

Seriously need to draft another QB next year. Ponder is not making throws. Musgrave's play calling lacks imagination. It's okay to occasionally throw it on 1st down, let ponder feel in control, get into rythm early.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 09-16-2013, 12:19 PM

i dont watch entire vikes games, but i agree. you gotta have some 1st down pass plays where you can hit a checkdown or get a short gain and set up some 2nd and 4 type situations where you can get more creative

Thom Yorke · 09-16-2013, 03:34 PM

Alright time for my thoughts on yesterday, and not just some brief rant at the end of the first half.

Way better overall in the second half, but they still found a way to collapse at the end. Honestly, the first half was so tough to watch. They were awful in all phases of the game and basically lucked themselves into a close game. Everything seemed to be better in the second half though, which is kind of promising, I guess.

Ponder... I actually don't think he was that bad today. Yeah, he had horrible statistics and was even less accurate that usual, but he stepped up in key situations a number of times. He made some really nice throws on third downs, and he was really smart at picking up first downs and yardage with his legs. He put them in a position to win, so I can't really fault him on much.

I was impressed with Jennings. He made some really nice catches and seems to be a legitimate intermediate threat for Ponder to utilize. Whether Ponder utilizes him or not is still to be seen.

Patterson looked great. How about we use him on more than 2 plays a game, maybe? The screen he caught seemed to be one of our best plays of the game, not to mention that kick return. I don't want another Harvin situation where we don't utilize him enough until it's too late.

Offensive line shored up a bit in the second half, but looked really bad in the first.

Peterson looked pretty bad. It seemed like he got half of his yards on that last drive in the first half, and the only reason he was getting yards there was because the Bears were selling out to stop the pass. They ran a couple of nice draws and AP took advantage of the open space. Otherwise, he's just getting stuffed play after play. Part of that has to do with the O-line and the playcalling (they should run him to the outside more), but we're used to seeing him create something out of nothing and he just hasn't done that this year yet. And some of those big mistakes are creeping back into his game. He's already lost a couple fumbles this year, and that one play where he lost like 15 yards was inexcusable. I didn't get to see the first game but that's how it looked like it went as well.

Our D-line isn't getting enough pressure on the QB. I like the personnel there (Allen is great, Williams is still pretty good, Robinson is a nice player, and Guion is OK) but the parts don't add up. I guess it might be the schemes they're running or the linebackers not getting enough pressure.

You're right, Sparky. The linebacker core looks bad. Greenway has been our most efficient and consistent defensive player for years now, but definitely looked off yesterday. I'm willing to give him a pass for this week though. The rest of them don't look very good though, and I especially don't like the looks of Henderson in pass coverage.

We seem to be getting exposed by tight ends again. Smith looked good and Rhodes had that one great play late, but I didn't really notice him otherwise. It wasn't a great job done on Marshall but it could have been worse I guess.

Special teams was atrocious. I don't care if it's Hester, you should not be having records broken against you by a guy that has some incredible return records.

Coaching is pissing me off again. Tice, then Childress, now this guy... It almost seems to be getting worse. I already mentioned running AP up the middle too much, but how about those plays designed to have Ponder roll out to his off-side? How about the horrible decision to run it up the middle on 3rd and goal from the 5? And how do you not go for a TD at the end there? Worst case scenario is that the Bears somehow come back up the field from their own 5 yard line and kick a field goal to send it to OT. Being up by 6 how shoddy the defense looked was a disaster waiting to happen. The opportunity was there to take two safe shots into the endzone from the 5. Surely they could have connected on one of those.

Forward To Death · 09-16-2013, 05:22 PM

Why is it that within the last week, literally every Vikings fan has criticized Ponder rolling out to his left? Wasn't it last year that everyone was saying he rolls out to his right too much? Doesn't seem like it makes a difference.

Where was Desmond Bishop? Patterson? We need to get those guys playing, everyone's talking about how the LBs suck, and Henderson can't handle mid, but we have Desmond Bishop sitting on the bench when we could start him and move Henderson back to the outside. Patterson seems like he makes something happen every time he touches the ball.

Next week....

09-11-2013, 01:34 PM	#382 (permalink)
Thom Yorke Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,848	I always hear people saying Rudolph has good speed, but I don't think I've ever seen that. He seems really slow out there to me, even as a TE. Not that bad of an analysis from Dilfer.

09-11-2013, 08:53 PM	#383 (permalink)
Forward To Death Trolier Than Thou Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,336	You're selling Jennings and Rudolph way short. Jennings has been a #1 for several years, and the fact that good QBs like Aaron Rodgers like to throw to him more than any other guy on their team says it all. It's the same thing you hear about Reggie Wayne. Of course a #1 receiver needs a good QB throwing to him, that's just the way the game works. You can say Rudolph is overrated all you want, he's still one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL.

09-14-2013, 01:23 AM	#384 (permalink)
Forward To Death Trolier Than Thou Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,336	What's up with Desmond Bishop? Are we gonna use this guy or what, he seems like he'd be perfect for keeping the run in check. Can't seem to find an injury report on him. Gotta beat the Bears this week.

09-15-2013, 12:37 PM	#385 (permalink)
Thom Yorke Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,848	Jesus Christ this team looks bad. It's an absolute miracle that they're only down by 3 right now.

09-16-2013, 11:35 AM	#386 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	forward to death i hear what you are sayin but i think you are over selling jennings and rudoplh. realistically maybe they are somewhere between where we are both rating them. i think jennings is on the lower half of #1 WRs. then again i am spoiled as a falcons fan with having roddy and julio. vikes should have won that game yesterday. more bad throws by ponder and just bad defense at the end when they had a chance to win it. there was a 1-on-1 interview thing between peterson and curt menefee though that was really cool, so check that out if you vikes fans get a chance

09-16-2013, 12:19 PM	#388 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	i dont watch entire vikes games, but i agree. you gotta have some 1st down pass plays where you can hit a checkdown or get a short gain and set up some 2nd and 4 type situations where you can get more creative

09-16-2013, 03:34 PM	#389 (permalink)
Thom Yorke Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,848	Alright time for my thoughts on yesterday, and not just some brief rant at the end of the first half. Way better overall in the second half, but they still found a way to collapse at the end. Honestly, the first half was so tough to watch. They were awful in all phases of the game and basically lucked themselves into a close game. Everything seemed to be better in the second half though, which is kind of promising, I guess. Ponder... I actually don't think he was that bad today. Yeah, he had horrible statistics and was even less accurate that usual, but he stepped up in key situations a number of times. He made some really nice throws on third downs, and he was really smart at picking up first downs and yardage with his legs. He put them in a position to win, so I can't really fault him on much. I was impressed with Jennings. He made some really nice catches and seems to be a legitimate intermediate threat for Ponder to utilize. Whether Ponder utilizes him or not is still to be seen. Patterson looked great. How about we use him on more than 2 plays a game, maybe? The screen he caught seemed to be one of our best plays of the game, not to mention that kick return. I don't want another Harvin situation where we don't utilize him enough until it's too late. Offensive line shored up a bit in the second half, but looked really bad in the first. Peterson looked pretty bad. It seemed like he got half of his yards on that last drive in the first half, and the only reason he was getting yards there was because the Bears were selling out to stop the pass. They ran a couple of nice draws and AP took advantage of the open space. Otherwise, he's just getting stuffed play after play. Part of that has to do with the O-line and the playcalling (they should run him to the outside more), but we're used to seeing him create something out of nothing and he just hasn't done that this year yet. And some of those big mistakes are creeping back into his game. He's already lost a couple fumbles this year, and that one play where he lost like 15 yards was inexcusable. I didn't get to see the first game but that's how it looked like it went as well. Our D-line isn't getting enough pressure on the QB. I like the personnel there (Allen is great, Williams is still pretty good, Robinson is a nice player, and Guion is OK) but the parts don't add up. I guess it might be the schemes they're running or the linebackers not getting enough pressure. You're right, Sparky. The linebacker core looks bad. Greenway has been our most efficient and consistent defensive player for years now, but definitely looked off yesterday. I'm willing to give him a pass for this week though. The rest of them don't look very good though, and I especially don't like the looks of Henderson in pass coverage. We seem to be getting exposed by tight ends again. Smith looked good and Rhodes had that one great play late, but I didn't really notice him otherwise. It wasn't a great job done on Marshall but it could have been worse I guess. Special teams was atrocious. I don't care if it's Hester, you should not be having records broken against you by a guy that has some incredible return records. Coaching is pissing me off again. Tice, then Childress, now this guy... It almost seems to be getting worse. I already mentioned running AP up the middle too much, but how about those plays designed to have Ponder roll out to his off-side? How about the horrible decision to run it up the middle on 3rd and goal from the 5? And how do you not go for a TD at the end there? Worst case scenario is that the Bears somehow come back up the field from their own 5 yard line and kick a field goal to send it to OT. Being up by 6 how shoddy the defense looked was a disaster waiting to happen. The opportunity was there to take two safe shots into the endzone from the 5. Surely they could have connected on one of those.

09-16-2013, 05:22 PM	#390 (permalink)
Forward To Death Trolier Than Thou Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,336	Why is it that within the last week, literally every Vikings fan has criticized Ponder rolling out to his left? Wasn't it last year that everyone was saying he rolls out to his right too much? Doesn't seem like it makes a difference. Where was Desmond Bishop? Patterson? We need to get those guys playing, everyone's talking about how the LBs suck, and Henderson can't handle mid, but we have Desmond Bishop sitting on the bench when we could start him and move Henderson back to the outside. Patterson seems like he makes something happen every time he touches the ball. Next week....