The English Football Thread

Trollheart · 08-31-2022, 01:19 PM

Not quite true. Sunderland have been in the Prem a few times, and there are many teams in the Championship and even League One who have also spent time there. But it's becoming harder for the smaller teams to move up, as ridiculous money is spent to keep the bigger teams in the Prem, and owners with deep pockets buy up all the best clubs. Often what will happen is that someone playing for a small team may get noticed and then signed to a larger one, as in the case of Jamie Vardy, who started off playing for Forest Green Rangers, who play in I think Division 3 or 4, low anyway. He got signed to Leicester and then became their star striker, helping them pull off an impossible feat in 2015/16 and win the Premiership title for the first - and probably only - time in their history.

The FA Cup is great for smaller teams too, as every team is allowed play and the smaller ones have a reasonably good chance of being matched up with a bigger one, which means if they can get through the first leg and not be beaten they can guarantee big gate receipts at their home ground when the big team come to play them in the second leg. That's why it can be so heartbreaking for these teams to lose in the last minute or so while playing away; that means they don't get the return big pay day they hope for.

music_collector · 08-31-2022, 01:32 PM

Players seem to have a lot of power, don't they? In that Sunderland series, one of their top young players, Josh Maja I think his name is, decided not to discuss a contract extension, as he knew a top club would throw a Brinks truck at him.

Trollheart · 08-31-2022, 02:44 PM

Some players do, and some abuse it. We have a situation at one of the clubs where a player wants to leave, it's being negotiated but meanwhile he was put on the team sheet for Saturday's match but didn't bother his arse turning up. I mean, he's going, fine I guess, but a bit of loyalty to your team? On the other hand it can be better for a young player not to move too soon. A big club might buy him but then find there's no place for him in the team, or the management might change and the new guy's style of play might leave no room for the young player, who could spend half his career sitting on the subs bench. All a case of balance and not letting your ego run away with you.

music_collector · 09-03-2022, 06:52 AM

Player loyalty to any team, in any sport, is gone. In our hockey league, it's not uncommon for a player to appear on a dozen teams. Players can pick any team they want after they hit 27, as long as their current contract is up. Even before then, players can tell a team they refuse to renew their contract, at which point they get traded.

I'm not complaining about it. It's the name of the game now. In hockey's case, players often don't want to play in Canada, where media and fan scrutiny is high. If Man U was a hockey club, there would be few Canadians playing on it. They would rather be in a place like Florida, where they can play without anyone knowing they exist.

Do football players do this? Do they demand to be transferred to a city where they can be anonymous?

rubber soul · 09-03-2022, 06:59 AM

Actually, American players in general like the big lights and the money so they tend to want to go to cities like New York and Los Angeles. The NFL has rules to restrict that kind of movement, but in baseball, it gets frustrating for a city like Baltimore or Kansas City because you know that a player might star for a couple of years only to sign a rich contract with the Yankees or Red Sox or some other glamor city. It makes for an uneven playing field.

music_collector · 09-03-2022, 07:53 AM

I'm well aware of the Yankees or Sox taking stars from other teams. It's crazy that it's allowed, but the dollar is mighty attractive. The Jays have had trouble competing because they don't throw blank cheques at players.

I see the NFL has some of the same problems as in hockey. Let's compare the Packers and Maple Leafs. The Packers are paying Aaron Rodgers a ton of money, so much so that it hurts their ability to field a team around him. With the Leafs, they have almost half of their salary cap invested in four players. The team has 22 players. Both teams are not winning championships anymore.

It stands to reason that teams with young stars have a better chance of winning, because they make less money. The teams can afford to add more depth players.

Trollheart · 09-03-2022, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_collector

Player loyalty to any team, in any sport, is gone. In our hockey league, it's not uncommon for a player to appear on a dozen teams. Players can pick any team they want after they hit 27, as long as their current contract is up. Even before then, players can tell a team they refuse to renew their contract, at which point they get traded.

I'm not complaining about it. It's the name of the game now. In hockey's case, players often don't want to play in Canada, where media and fan scrutiny is high. If Man U was a hockey club, there would be few Canadians playing on it. They would rather be in a place like Florida, where they can play without anyone knowing they exist.

Do football players do this? Do they demand to be transferred to a city where they can be anonymous?

Bolded one: not here. Most players are very loyal to their team, their manager and especially their fans. Many players have turned down moves to bigger clubs because either they saw their future - for the time being, anyway - with the smaller club, or because they could see how badly it would hurt the club if they left. Bigger isn't always better.

Bolded two: If you're asking me, then again no. For one thing, with social media and the internet, and everyone with a phone (ie everyone) a potential amateur paparazzo, anonymity is no longer a concept for even the slightly famous. Mostly, English players (or, more likely, foreign players in English clubs) prefer to be somewhere at least close in climate to their home, eg a Spanish player would be in no hurry to move to rainy Newcastle. There's also their wives/girlfriends to consider.

jadis · 10-23-2022, 07:51 AM

Stevie out at Villa. Curious to see what his successor is going to do with a certain underperforming mercurial Brazilian.

JoeyVimsanteThePoet · 11-20-2023, 08:58 AM

How about foreign guest sides from Scotland, Ireland, Wales, The MLS, France, Belgium, and Netherlands, in the English Football League Trophy, English League Cup. ENGLISH FA Cup, and English FA Trophy?

The Scottish allow Northern Irish and Welsh sides in the Scottish Challenge Cup.

My idea is invite all Scottish Premiership sides not in Europe, plus selected sides from the Welsh Cymru Premier, Ireland and North West France into the EFL Trophy.

Plus invite all Welsh Cymru Premier, Scottish Championship and selected sides from Ireland, France and Belgium into the FA Trophy.

I do not support a British league merger. I want cross border cups on top of domestic and European football. I want 3 strong leagues in Great Britain.

08-31-2022, 01:19 PM	#7721 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Not quite true. Sunderland have been in the Prem a few times, and there are many teams in the Championship and even League One who have also spent time there. But it's becoming harder for the smaller teams to move up, as ridiculous money is spent to keep the bigger teams in the Prem, and owners with deep pockets buy up all the best clubs. Often what will happen is that someone playing for a small team may get noticed and then signed to a larger one, as in the case of Jamie Vardy, who started off playing for Forest Green Rangers, who play in I think Division 3 or 4, low anyway. He got signed to Leicester and then became their star striker, helping them pull off an impossible feat in 2015/16 and win the Premiership title for the first - and probably only - time in their history. The FA Cup is great for smaller teams too, as every team is allowed play and the smaller ones have a reasonably good chance of being matched up with a bigger one, which means if they can get through the first leg and not be beaten they can guarantee big gate receipts at their home ground when the big team come to play them in the second leg. That's why it can be so heartbreaking for these teams to lose in the last minute or so while playing away; that means they don't get the return big pay day they hope for. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-31-2022, 02:44 PM	#7723 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Some players do, and some abuse it. We have a situation at one of the clubs where a player wants to leave, it's being negotiated but meanwhile he was put on the team sheet for Saturday's match but didn't bother his arse turning up. I mean, he's going, fine I guess, but a bit of loyalty to your team? On the other hand it can be better for a young player not to move too soon. A big club might buy him but then find there's no place for him in the team, or the management might change and the new guy's style of play might leave no room for the young player, who could spend half his career sitting on the subs bench. All a case of balance and not letting your ego run away with you. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-31-2022, 01:32 PM	#7722 (permalink)
music_collector Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 757	Players seem to have a lot of power, don't they? In that Sunderland series, one of their top young players, Josh Maja I think his name is, decided not to discuss a contract extension, as he knew a top club would throw a Brinks truck at him.

09-03-2022, 06:52 AM	#7724 (permalink)
music_collector Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 757	Player loyalty to any team, in any sport, is gone. In our hockey league, it's not uncommon for a player to appear on a dozen teams. Players can pick any team they want after they hit 27, as long as their current contract is up. Even before then, players can tell a team they refuse to renew their contract, at which point they get traded. I'm not complaining about it. It's the name of the game now. In hockey's case, players often don't want to play in Canada, where media and fan scrutiny is high. If Man U was a hockey club, there would be few Canadians playing on it. They would rather be in a place like Florida, where they can play without anyone knowing they exist. Do football players do this? Do they demand to be transferred to a city where they can be anonymous?

09-03-2022, 07:53 AM	#7726 (permalink)
music_collector Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 757	I'm well aware of the Yankees or Sox taking stars from other teams. It's crazy that it's allowed, but the dollar is mighty attractive. The Jays have had trouble competing because they don't throw blank cheques at players. I see the NFL has some of the same problems as in hockey. Let's compare the Packers and Maple Leafs. The Packers are paying Aaron Rodgers a ton of money, so much so that it hurts their ability to field a team around him. With the Leafs, they have almost half of their salary cap invested in four players. The team has 22 players. Both teams are not winning championships anymore. It stands to reason that teams with young stars have a better chance of winning, because they make less money. The teams can afford to add more depth players.

10-23-2022, 07:51 AM	#7728 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Stevie out at Villa. Curious to see what his successor is going to do with a certain underperforming mercurial Brazilian.

11-20-2023, 08:58 AM	#7729 (permalink)
JoeyVimsanteThePoet Groupie Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 13	How about foreign guest sides from Scotland, Ireland, Wales, The MLS, France, Belgium, and Netherlands, in the English Football League Trophy, English League Cup. ENGLISH FA Cup, and English FA Trophy? The Scottish allow Northern Irish and Welsh sides in the Scottish Challenge Cup. My idea is invite all Scottish Premiership sides not in Europe, plus selected sides from the Welsh Cymru Premier, Ireland and North West France into the EFL Trophy. Plus invite all Welsh Cymru Premier, Scottish Championship and selected sides from Ireland, France and Belgium into the FA Trophy. I do not support a British league merger. I want cross border cups on top of domestic and European football. I want 3 strong leagues in Great Britain.