Newbie requesting equipment setup recommendation
 

Hi Folks -

I would like to ask for advice for what equipment I should acquire.

Please bear in mind that I am probably woefully ignorant of audio equipment compared with all of you.

Objective: To be able to gig at home with a minimum of four input sources: three singers on microphones and one of the following: an electric piano; or an electric-acoustic guitar (or ukulele); or a harmonica (with mic). I want to be able to individually control the volume of each input and record the gigs. It is not important that the setup be portable enough to leave the house.

Proposed solution. What I think I need is a 4-channel keyboard amp plus four microphones. Three of the mics would be for the three vocalists and the fourth would be placed in front of the amp speaker and connected to a PC to record the speaker output.

What I have so far:

+ Windows 10 laptop
+ Windows 11 tower pc with Bose USB speakers
+ harmonica
+ Yamaha PSR-GX76 electric piano that has MIDI and line outputs
+ a Concert ukulele with electric pickup (this is a loaner, and I might replace it with an electric-acoustic guitar)

Investigation I have done so far:

I have spent several hours over the past week researching home studios and keyboard amps.

Initially, I was in love with the idea of buying a home studio and using it both for gigging (using the monitor port/speakers) and mixing. But, after reading sad tales in amazon.com audio interface (6-8 different brands of audio interfaces) reviews reported by obviously experienced home studio users, I don't feel that I am ready for the complexity of choosing home studio components and setting them up and using the setup.

I understand that if I go the route of using an amp, that I need a 'keyboard amp' (vs guitar amp) in order to support the wide frequency range of my electric piano. My current thinking is that a 20 watt amp would be sufficient.

A PA system seems to be overkill for my situation.

A fourth possibility is to connect the input devices (mics, piano, etc) directly to my Windows 11 PC and play the music through my Bose Companion 5 speakers. I'm not sure that this option would easily provide volume control of the individual inputs.

Is there a 5th alternative that I'm overlooking?

In searching for keyboard amps, it appears that most of the amps in the 20 watt range provide only two inputs. I've found amps that provide four or more channels, much higher watts, and cost $500 and up.

So, do I need to pay $500 or more in order to get the functionality that I want?

You are invited to point out where I am making bad assumptions or have overlooked better solutions.

Thanks in advance!

Ralph

Hi there :)

I think you should get something like a focusrite Clarett or Scarlett with enough inputs. I'd probably go for 8. The Roland Studio Capture is another good option, but it has aged a bit (I have one).

Connect everything into the audio interface and record to a DAW like Reaper (many choices here). The only thing that might go elsewhere is midi from a keyboard.

Also figure out if you're gonna record or perform or both. Performance is more demanding in terms of space and the number of mics you need. Recording on a budget, you can overdub things. You might get by with less equipment and f.ex. wouldn't need the keyboard amp at all, though you should invest money into proper mics.

I might be able to help you out more, but I don't really post here much these days. Consider checking out the forum in my signature :)

Edit:

Also, the piezo pickups in ukuleles and guitars sound bad. It's preferable to record guitars etc. with a stereo mic setup (condenser mics since ribbon mics are more expensive). A popular budget option is a pair of Oktava MK-012 pencil mics, but again there are some options..

Guybrush, thanks so much for the reply!

I would ideally like to both record and perform with the setup. Sorry for not making that clear.

I learned a lot from your post, including the issue of piezo pickup quality and the mic option!

Last night I was at a social function and chatted with a guy who is an amateur audio engineer. He suggested the option of using an audio mixer along with either external powered monitor speaker(s) connected to the audio mixer or output from the mixer to a PC and monitor through the PC's speakers as well as recording on the PC. I wasn't previously aware of that option.

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. I don't see a URL in your signature.

URL is right down the end, in a different, lighter blue, where it says "Something Completely Different". You can click on it. :pssst:

As someone who performs and records, I have a mixer and a small PA for gigs and I also have mic preamps (which you don't need) and an audio interface for recording.

If you want to perform, the mixer is great. If you're going to record, the audio interface is great.

I'd say if you're only buying one thing, maybe it can be a mixer, but make sure it's something you can hook up to PC with USB or similar that will send multiple channels to a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). What you don't want is sending stereo out from your mixer to your PC for recording. That means you'd mix on the mixer and send your mix to your PC, but getting all channels in and doing the mixing in a DAW on a computer has tremendous advantages when recording, so that should be your goal.

In a pinch, an audio interface like a Roland Studio Capture can also be used to perform, but since the mixer is typically software, you may have to bring a laptop on stage, at least during sound testing to set the levels. Adjustment during performance or feedback may be harder to deal with quickly if you can't get to a physical knob or slider quickly.

Second on the Focusrite. They have really good software, hardware, and the preamps are really clean imo. I used a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 for years with much success.

Guybrush, thank you so much for the help information! I appreciate it.

Currently, I have been leaning toward getting a Yamaha MG10XU mixer that has a USB (to PC) interface.

This mixer appears to have physical knobs. So, maybe this Yamaha mixer has the features you are suggesting?

I have to admit that I am barely keeping up with the technical part of this topic. I am a retired techie (from another field), but the musical equipment topic is new to me.

Thanks for the recommendation, Dr Rez!!

One of the issues with audio interfaces is finding one with 3+ microphone inputs. I realize that I can use an XLR-to-1/4" adaptor to connect a mic to a Line In port, but I am not sure how important it is to preserve a balanced microphone signal. This is my ignorance showing....

If you do that, you won't hear the mic. Or at least not until you turn it way loud and get lots of noise in the signal. Certain audio like mic and instrument level sources need to be amplified before you can use them as line. So for a mic to get connected to a line-in, it should pass through a preamp first.

Mixers and audio interfaces have preamps in most of their channels (just not in their aux/line ins, midi ins, spdif etc). Some mics, like the Shure SM7B, might need a lot of preamping (upwards of 70db) and more than what a typical audio interface or mixer can give, so that might be another thing to be aware of (although condenser mics are generally good in this regard).

About the Yamaha MG10XU, I have one of those I believe, just slightly bigger. I like it a lot as it's cheap, sounds fine and has compressor on the channels to f.ex. keep vocals a little more level. I've actually never hooked mine up to a PC through USB and recorded with it that way because I prefer an audio interface, but it probably works fine.

By the way, note that condenser mics also need phantom power (power through XLR cable). Like for a mixer, just check how many channels have phantom power.

I'm very intrigued by your first paragraph. I had not thought about the point that you make, although your explanation makes sense.

I have seen microphones for sale with built-in cable with 1/4" jack on the 'far' end. I wonder how that is used.....

The MG10XU has phantom power on all four XLR ports.

I am planning to use Shure PGA58 Dynamic Cardioid mics, although I'm not sure how to figure out if the MG10XU provides enough preamping. By preamping, do you mean Gain?

Looking at the MG10XU specs, I can't identify the spec that would address preamping of mics, although I admit that I'm a newbie wrt mixers and mics.

Maybe I'm in way over my head in terms of buying a mixer.....

Anyhow, thanks for the help!

Ralph

Thanks!

I don't know how I missed that!

By preamping, I do mean gain, yes.

I think the Yamaha mixer will suit you fine :) It's difficult to find exactly how many decibels of amplification/gain you can get, but I assume it may have to do with how you can also boost it with the EQ, maybe the compressor if it has makeup gain, etc. It should be fine.

On audio interfaces, it's usually specified in the specs. For example if you look up the full specs of the Focusrite Clarett+ 8Pre, you will find it says "Gain range: +57dB" on the mic channels. That means the preamp can amplify the signal up +57 db which would be just a little short of what you might want for a Shure SM7B.

The common way to tackle such a problem would be to get a standalone preamp, like the Focusrite ISA One, the Warm Audio WA12 or the Golden Age Pre-73 MKII pictured here:

https://andertons-productimages.imgi...3292370928.png

Here you can see it's a single channel preamp with an XLR input and output on the back and a gain knob that goes all the way up to an impressive +80db on the front. After preamping the SM7B with this, you could send it to a line-in / aux in on another unit like a mixer or audio interface. Thus, standalone preamps like this might let you get more mics into a unit, allowing you to also get mics into line ins.

But this shouldn't really be relevant for you because buying standalone preamps is expensive and probably not needed in your use-case :) I mention it mostly because I thought you might find it educational and interesting.

If you do find you need more mic channels, it's better to get a slightly larger mixer or audio interface.

I think you can imagine the following scenarios:

Recording a band live - you should have more than 4 channels because you might wanna stereo record acoustic guitars (2 channels per instrument), 1 mic for every singer/backup singer, maybe 2 mics for overhead (left/right) and if you have any drums, that's gonna be a lot. Recording bands live requires many channels.

The same band performing a live concert - Requires less channels than recording live because you can get by using instrument jacks for acoustic instruments (helps avoid feedback) and you wouldn't use overheads except maybe for drums. Drums and singers still require a lot of mics.

Recording by overdubbing - Depending on what you're doing, you might get by with as little as 3 mics or even 2, though I'd suggest 3. Something like a large condenser for recording vocals and a pair of pencil mics for stereo recording. This also lets you do setups like mid/side recording. A 4 channel audio interface would go a long way. Unless you have a drum set. Then you need lots more.

Wow, thanks so much for the extensive information!

My head is nearly full, LOL!

Guybrush, I hope you will indulge me with another question.

I was planning to buy Shure PGA58 mics because I had read that they are good for live vocals.

As a reminder, the plan is to gig at my home with 3-4 vocalists and 1-3 instruments (electric piano, electric-acoustic ukulele, and another guitar that is unknown, but probably acoustic-with-mix or electric).

Given that the Yamaha mixer might be marginal wrt providing enough gain for the Shure dynamic mics, would it be a safer choice to use condenser mics (maybe Audio-Technica AT2020) instead?

For recording, I would generally prefer the AT2020s to the Shure dynamics. For performing, I would prefer the dynamics. The main advantage of the dynamic mics is you can hold them, drop them to the floor, less sensitive to other sources maybe so you get less bleed - it's good for performing.

The AT2020, you're gonna place that on a stand and probably have a pop filter. The singer will engage with it differently. It's not gonna be as versatile for performing, but it will probably sound better on a recording.

There's always exceptions - some voices just work well with a certain dynamic mic f.ex. But for recording, I use condensers. I'd consider ribbon mics too, but they seem too fragile and so I haven't dared :)

While I think you'd be just fine with the Shures in terms of gain, there's no question AT2020 will work well in this regard.

Thanks yet again, Guybrush!!

I could also mention the AT2020 seems to have a good reputation for its price (very cheap). It's often mentioned. The Shure PGA doesn't seem like a mic that's talked about (as far as I know). For Shure dynamics, that would be more like the SM58 (vocals), SM57 (guitar cabinets, drums, various) and the SM7B (often considered a good higher end option for podcasting/vocals).

Awesome, thanks, Guybrush!