Skill Progression - Self Taught
 

I decided to finally sit down and learn guitar. I have owned it for years and every time I pick it up I get intimidated within a few days and end up dropping. However, I recently decided to set some goals and have an idea of where I want to go. I learned some major and minor chords and a couple scales, and have practiced the crap out of Foo Fighters Everlong...but heres the thing:

Where do I go next? I dont know what sort of things I should be looking at as far as theory and song difficulty. I know a lot of you kick ass at guitar so share some of your ideas!

playing music is not like playing a sport.

song difficulty only matters if you're playing guitar hero or rockband. theory only becomes really relevant if you're composing or a recital style performer.

where you should go next is wherever you feel happiest with your instrument. just remember that there's no substitute for practice.

something you could try is making a list of all the songs you'd like to eventually be able to play, regardless of perceived difficulty or skill required, then try them all out. laugh when it comes to ridiculous bits that make you look at your hands like they're alien, take pride in the passages that you never thought you'd be able to play yet somehow sailed through smoothly. recognize that it's meant to be fun. even if you make a list of 15 songs and only manage to play about 3 of them 'most' of the way through it's a worthwhile start. NO ONE starts off by being able to play songs from start to finish.

also, mix it up. don't always play the same songs in the same order. if you're playing along to a disc use the shuffle option. it'll keep your mind fresh while playing the same tunes. and if you do try that list thing put it off to the side after you've tried it a few times and only revisit it every couple of months or so. if you're playing everyday you'll be amazed at the progress you never noticed you were accomplishing.

Aw dude, thanks for the insight. I guess my main thing is that I just dont want to lose my momentum by not understanding what to do next. Plus putting my thoughts out these in MB land helps me through cause I feel like I have a group to go to.

hahah it's all good. MB can be pretty sarcastic

well if you've got major and minor chord shapes down and a few scales the next step would be barre chord theory. if you've already got that down then you're pretty much good to go with whatever.

btw, what's on the list? hehe

Even if you don't want to get into theory and all, I don't know what scales you learned, but I'd try to learn major, minor, and pentatonic/blues scales. You'll be able to a lot with just that.

True - mainly.

If you're in a band, then there's the element of team playing - and there's always the competitive element that keeps you trying to get better technically, improvisionally or as a songwriter.

Music is a means of communication - what you communicate is up to you.

If you want to communicate that the music you've written is devilishly hard to play, then why not.

There may be people that don't like it, but amazingly there are also people (often the same people) that don't like music that is too simple, too cheesey, or excessive in some other department.

There are even people who don't like AC/DC - can you believe that?


Depends entirely on what you're trying to do. If you want to write something difficult, then song difficulty matters :D


Theory is essential - as you point out below;
Exactly.

You cannot actually play without theory. Theory is always not only relevant to music, but inseparable from it. Even if you deduced the theory yourself through many sessions of playing by ear.

What you're actually saying is that in-depth theory study is only of use to an academic, which is self-evident.

Some people want to write academically slanted music, particularly metal guitarists - and some of those presumably even enoy it.

Music doesn't actually have to be fun - it's just a means of communication by organising sounds inside a time frame, exactly like speech.

Copying other people is the best way to learn, but the best way to communicate is to think for yourself, once you've spent some time inside the learning by imitation process.

Can you imagine what life would be like if everybody went around simply regurgitating what each other said? Hmm, maybe not too hard...


Play with the ideas, not the set order - rewrite the songs so they sound better, don't just keep trying to play the same old stuff - why re-invent the wheel?

Improvisation is the key to great musicianship, and theory is the key to great improvisation.

yeah, if you are doing it for an image then don't do it. it's all about you wanting to do it. i wanna start self taught guitar and drums. im not even gonna use anything but my ipod to learn. and for those of you who oppose that, consider this: how did the inventors of the guitar and drums learn to play? answer: with their own ideas. and theory definitely helps, ESPECIALLY if you want others to have a clue of what you're trying to convey to them and they can play it to someone. just dont plagiarize.

I agree with the first part. But I think that music theory is like a set of rules for playing, which I feel kind of tries to pigeonhole the whole shebang, which I don't like. It's true though, if youre really after some improv skill, scales and theory help out a lot. I get a little envious watching jazz guys play, because it seems like they're guys that just met yesterday, and yet here they are, playing 3 hours worth of music.

i think it really depends on the level of theory being discussed.

from my perspective there's basic theory and advanced theory. everyone should understand the basics and it really shouldn't take more than about an hour to grasp. the advanced stuff is for more technically oriented musicians.

as for the basics, major and minor chord shapes, pentatonic scale, barre chord theory and basic note/chord transposition.

then if you want to get into the advanced stuff like modes, triads, and unconventional scales then by all means do it up. i have yet to 'get' why it would be necessary. the only time i felt really inclined to learn advanced theory was when i was still getting off on learning the technicality of the instrument as opposed to just playing it.

I realize that theory is something that you should learn throughout your guitar playing career...and you should want to if youre serious about it. It is just something else to learn about something you love. I am actually just trying to learn how to progressively get better efficiently...I learn pretty quick and am always looking for the next step in this climb to the top =)

It takes MUCH more than an hour to learn all the major and minor chords - the only area I concede is that it might take an hour to get to grips with the pentatonic.

Even barre chords take a while to master.

Triads are hardly advanced - they are the chords we play, and you cannot call yourself a guitarist or pianist if you can't play triads.

On other instruments, triads are the basis of arpeggios, which along with scales are the fundamentals of music writing.

All of these basics are music theory that must be learnt.

bollocks. it's the difference between knowing after an hour and doing after however much practice the individual needs.

What?

That makes no sense.

You're saying that all you need to do is spend an hour learning every chord there is, then you can play, with practice.

With all due respect, THAT is bollocks.

no. what i'm saying is that you can learn the basics in about an hour. once you have that knowledge you need to practice it, but you don't 'need' someone to hold your hand remind you how to put your fingers to form the C shape everytime you pick up your guitar.

from the theoretical side of things the knowledge is easy to obtain. i'm talking the 8 most common chord shapes, 1 scale, and the reasoning ability to understand how to move the shapes up and down the neck.

so that's 8 diagrams, 1 small tab, and about 2 paragraphs. if it takes anyone more than an hour to understand the knowledge contained within those pieces then they're probably still stuck on learning how to tie their shoes.

with that minimal '1 hours worth' of knowledge that gives you the shapes for A, C, D, E, G, Am, Em, Dm. the pentatonic scale. along with the understanding of how to move those chords around the neck, using B and F as the simplest examples of how to apply the theory behind transposing shapes.

at that point, you're pretty much good to go. there's obviously more that can be learned but as far as understanding the basic theory behind playing the guitar that about covers it. with that simple knowledge you can play any chord anywhere on the neck with the ability to determine what that chord is on your own. (max 2 weeks of practicing for the better part of an hour per day)

i'm not saying triads, modes, and the multitude of other scales possible are worthless, but most definitely dependent upon the basic knowledge and theory i describe earlier.

basically the 1 hour deal gives you what you need to play the instrument for fun, like a campfire jammer. quite frankly the only other people i've EVER seen discuss the higher level theoretical stuff (especially when it comes to playing guitar) are either shredders, composers, or hung up on the technicality of the music they enjoy.

Damn,I never even heard of those.Do you know them and do you think its necesarry to learn those to be a great guitar player?

yes and no. it's one of those things people do without knowing they're doing it. some people feel the need to know it, other people just like to do it. neither way is wronger than the other.

Not every time, but in my experience, many people find the C shape quite hard to master - and the F shape trickier still, never mind B7, so they need "hand-holding" for the first few weeks of learning.

I would suggest it would take most people an hour to get to grips with learning maybe E and A major and minor, and to be able to shift between the two, with D major and minor not far behind.

C and G tend to take longer to master - maybe your experience is different, but unless you live in an area populated by natural guitarists, I would suggest it's unusual.

Then there's B7 and D7, both quite tricky and an hour's worth, and you've spent 4 hours learning chords that will enable you to play in 4 keys.

Those are just about the basics for rock and pop.


Now you have to spend the time learning how to change between the chords - and most people I've come across require frequent reminders.

Personally, I'd be astonished if they learned all that in an hour. I'm reckoning on weeks.

As I said earlier, C and G are not straightforward chords to learn.

Amazing, from someone who earlier suggested that theory is irrelevant!

Triads are chords. Chords are triads (unless they have more than 3 different notes!).

Some modes are very useful to learn, like the omni-present Phrygian in metal.

There's tons of other theory besides modes which is useful to perk up basic playing; suspensions are commonplace and useful to know, even for beginners.

Try playing "American Pie" (a campfire staple, surely) - it uses one. You don't really need to know what it's called, but the simple act of raising and lowering the 3rd is effective and easy to learn.

Another theoretical staple is the tritone - Heavy metal hardly exists without it.

Finally, for any budding soloist, the pentatonic or blues scale is simply a must.

I still dispute that it'd take an hour to learn 8 chords. 6, maybe, but I reckon C and G are beyond most people who have picked up a guitar for the very first time.

There's plenty of "mid" level theory to learn - it's not a simple split between "The Basics" and "Advanced", and I'd suggest that the pentatonic scale fits into the campfire remit.

anyone else want to play with the troll? i've got to work tonight and the top 10 video games thread seems more interesting than this.

im new to this site ive been playiing for three years while playing competitive soccer and only leared chords no scales or chord progressions but ive always enjoyed playing and recently started writting my own songs and my feinds told me it was good i wanted to get an opinon from a higher source so i called a local producer and with just a sheet of lyrics i played him a song he said it was good and told me that 10 bieng able to play on the radio i was at a six ive played at the local 806 at open mic night and everyone seemed to like my songs any advice on what to learn next to really understand the gitaur better

I don't think that's entirely true. How much theory did Muddy Waters understand?

And there are a lot of other examples. You don't have to know anything about theory to hum a tune. And someone with no knowledge of theory can make up a tune a whistle it, and come up with "Don't worry, be Happy"

(Although McFerrin is a bad example)

But still, you can learn 3 open chords & be Jewell.

Knowledge of theory matters when you're trying to orchestrate, or harmonize.

My advice, download powertab, it's free.

And then just search for the songs you want using powertab as a tag.

Another good one is guitarpro. That one is cool because you can turn the tab off, and just have standard notation, if you want to learn the notes. That one isn't free, but you might ask around. Some people have a copy they save for friends that don't have it. I know I have one saved somewhere.

And there are also a lot of backing tracks out there. When I can post links I'll show you stuff that will help you. It's not as good as playing with a band, but it's better than nothing.

And when possible, use a metronome. Just search for free metronome and you'll find em online.

I should also point out, if you're really into learning theory, rent a piano, and take a few lessons.

Guitar is a horrible instrument to learn theory.

It's kind of like the difference between soccer & hockey.
Both basically the same game. but with Hockey, besides the basic game, you have to be a good skater, and be coordinated enough to hit the object with a stick, instead of just kicking it.

For the record, I've played 40 years, some of it professionally.

Not just guitar playing. Its relevant to each instrument and even helps me when listening to music.