Music Banter

Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)
-   Talk Instruments (https://www.musicbanter.com/talk-instruments/)
-   -   Setup (https://www.musicbanter.com/talk-instruments/60826-setup.html)

Peppermint4life 02-10-2012 07:26 PM

Setup
 
I recently got a new amp. A 1976 Twin Reverb with original speakers. I was just curious if this is enough for a small venue. Say, about 250 people? I'll be playing a sorta punkish-blues hybrid thing.

Dr_Rez 02-11-2012 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peppermint4life (Post 1152797)
I recently got a new amp. A 1976 Twin Reverb with original speakers. I was just curious if this is enough for a small venue. Say, about 250 people? I'll be playing a sorta punkish-blues hybrid thing.

If im correct its a 100 watt silverface twin. That amp is so mother ****ing loud is absurd. People would not normally think this but it can hang with any marshall stack any day of the week. Unless you are playing a stadium you wouldnt even need to mic the thing unless you wanted to. I dont think you comprehend how loud and how much headroom a 100 or even 85 watt fender has. I hope you are using pedals because your not getting any breakup out of that amp unless your ears are bleeding.

Dont get me wrong though, a silverface twin is one baddass amp. My friend just got a 74 and the thing has the most beautiful clean sound you could ever imagine. And for a frame of reference I have a 15 watt tube amp that can be played overdriven or clean in mosts bars and clubs without being miced. People dont give tube amp rating enough credit.

Their is a reason people play hot rods, blues jr's, and other smaller amps than just them being smaller. They dont have nearly as much headroom so they can get that breakup at tolerable volume levels. If your playing dirty with a twin pedals are a must. But at least your clean tone will be unstoppable.

Peppermint4life 02-14-2012 01:09 AM

I could always use my big muff pi for distortion. Or do you think that I should just play through my Egnater Rebel? Its 20 watts. My goal is to play without being miced, too. Something about it just doesn't set right with me. *shrug. :/

Dr_Rez 02-14-2012 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peppermint4life (Post 1154363)
I could always use my big muff pi for distortion. Or do you think that I should just play through my Egnater Rebel? Its 20 watts. My goal is to play without being miced, too. Something about it just doesn't set right with me. *shrug. :/

The egnator would probably be loud enough, If you were not sure just hook it up to a 4x12 and your fine.

rnrloser_IX 02-14-2012 11:11 PM

Are you micing your drummer? If not, than any tube amp above 50 watts should easily be able to go over the loudest drummer. Here's a little hint: if you ain't micing your drummer, then you just found your maximum volume. And if you're gonna take the time to tediously set up drum mics, then call that sound b**** over and have him throw a dang mic in front the amp and call it good. Way easier than micing a drum. Besides, those tube amps carry. I have a small vox, about 1/10 Watt, 1 Watt or 4 Watts and its crazy loud and full on 4 watts and fills a room. Like RezZ said, you don't need much tube power to blow people's head off, I'm looking at going down from my 100 watt Peavey to an AC30.

Dr_Rez 02-15-2012 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnrloser_IX (Post 1154821)
Are you micing your drummer? If not, than any tube amp above 50 watts should easily be able to go over the loudest drummer. Here's a little hint: if you ain't micing your drummer, then you just found your maximum volume. And if you're gonna take the time to tediously set up drum mics, then call that sound b**** over and have him throw a dang mic in front the amp and call it good. Way easier than micing a drum. Besides, those tube amps carry. I have a small vox, about 1/10 Watt, 1 Watt or 4 Watts and its crazy loud and full on 4 watts and fills a room. Like RezZ said, you don't need much tube power to blow people's head off, I'm looking at going down from my 100 watt Peavey to an AC30.

Take a look at Blackheart Hothead 100. It can go 100 or 50 watts and has a class a setting that goes all the way down to 30 watts. Really good quality, I would own one but my 15 watter is to loud as it is.

rnrloser_IX 02-15-2012 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezZ (Post 1154838)
Take a look at Blackheart Hothead 100. It can go 100 or 50 watts and has a class a setting that goes all the way down to 30 watts. Really good quality, I would own one but my 15 watter is to loud as it is.

That's ridiculous. I've heard of Blackhearts but I've never actually seen one in a shop or anywhere to demo. What exactly is Class A anyway? I know my valveking has a texture knob on the back that shoots it from A to AB.

GuitarBizarre 02-16-2012 03:52 PM

Wattage is not the same as volume.

Sensitivity of the speaker cone makes the difference.

Dr_Rez 02-16-2012 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnrloser_IX (Post 1154936)
That's ridiculous. I've heard of Blackhearts but I've never actually seen one in a shop or anywhere to demo. What exactly is Class A anyway? I know my valveking has a texture knob on the back that shoots it from A to AB.

Check this link out.
Class-A Amplifiers explained

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre (Post 1155571)
Wattage is not the same as volume.

Sensitivity of the speaker cone makes the difference.

No but it is a good gauge of how loud the amp will "sound" to you. While it may barely be louder 100 vs 15 watts yours ears will hear the extra frequencies being pushed through giving it a fuller sound tricking your ears into thinking its actually louder.

That is why bands with lower mids/bass heavy music use such high wattage amps. (besides just looking cool) While using a miced/unmiced 30 or even 50 watter you will get just as loud but wont have nearly the same full sound when the lower notes are being played. Now this is assuming of coarse all the amps have the same speaker rating and speaker size.

rnrloser_IX 02-16-2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre (Post 1155571)
Wattage is not the same as volume.

Sensitivity of the speaker cone makes the difference.

Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that to double the total decibels output of an amp, you need something in the ballpark of quadruple the wattage. Like I said, if you're amp can put you to par with your drummer and everyone else, than thats as loud as you need. Then, instead of sinking your money into getting the "loudest amp," try and put it toward sound quality.

Hey GB, I have a Valveking 212 and I like it an all, but there are a few tonal things that I'm not overly satisfied with. For some reason, at distance my amp gains a lot of highs and the lows start to choke out a bit. I've noticed this with my friends amp too. Also, the sound is very linear,not so much expansive. Is this just an anomaly with guitar amps or is this my amp? If it is, then is there a way I could fix that? I've played with the tones until I've gotten good balance and cut, but that trend is always there.

Dr_Rez 02-17-2012 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnrloser_IX (Post 1155712)
Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that to double the total decibels output of an amp, you need something in the ballpark of quadruple the wattage. Like I said, if you're amp can put you to par with your drummer and everyone else, than thats as loud as you need. Then, instead of sinking your money into getting the "loudest amp," try and put it toward sound quality.

Hey GB, I have a Valveking 212 and I like it an all, but there are a few tonal things that I'm not overly satisfied with. For some reason, at distance my amp gains a lot of highs and the lows start to choke out a bit. I've noticed this with my friends amp too. Also, the sound is very linear,not so much expansive. Is this just an anomaly with guitar amps or is this my amp? If it is, then is there a way I could fix that? I've played with the tones until I've gotten good balance and cut, but that trend is always there.


Again while the loudness is not really the issue when people get high attage stacks and such, it is the amount of frequencies needed. A small amp can not push enough air to get those mammoth bass/mid heavy tones some bands need. If you go in a room and put the nicest most expensive low wattage combo next to a Jcm 800 or other 100 watter of similar quality you will quickly hear the tonal diffidence. The JCm will appear louder because of the fuller sound. (keep in mind also they would both be running into the same cab.

Smaller amps let you carry them around easily, overdrive much sooner, and many other great qualities but for live playing and recording the bigger amps will always be preferred for any bass/mid intensive music.

GuitarBizarre 02-17-2012 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezZ (Post 1155708)
Check this link out.
Class-A Amplifiers explained



No but it is a good gauge of how loud the amp will "sound" to you. While it may barely be louder 100 vs 15 watts yours ears will hear the extra frequencies being pushed through giving it a fuller sound tricking your ears into thinking its actually louder.

That is why bands with lower mids/bass heavy music use such high wattage amps. (besides just looking cool) While using a miced/unmiced 30 or even 50 watter you will get just as loud but wont have nearly the same full sound when the lower notes are being played. Now this is assuming of coarse all the amps have the same speaker rating and speaker size.

Thats bull****. Wattage only, 100% ONLY affects the amount of clean headroom you have before your amplifier starts to distort. Your frequency response will be exactly the same as long as you're matching up the cabinets correctly.

Metal bands use high wattage heads becase

1 - They don't know any better
2 - They're usually driving a 4x12 cab. THAT is where your extra bass and tonal range is coming from, the 4x12 cab.

And you can drive a 4x12 cab with lots of low wattage heads. There's people out there driving 4x12 cabs with 15 watt class 5 marshalls.

Dr_Rez 02-20-2012 02:37 AM

I cant describe what Im trying to say well so Ill quote this guy:

"Basically, folks are impressed with high horsepower numbers. A car that has 300 hp MUST be faster than one having 250 hp, right? Not really, and not in the real world. Horsepower comes into play when you are talking about top-end speeds. However, torque shows its might when you are cruising on the freeway and then need to pass someone. A car with higher torque figures will accelerate quicker from 60-80 than one that has higher horsepower. Hence the saying, "People buy horsepower, but they drive torque." You are constantly passing folks in everyday driving, how often do you make a top-end run?

How does this apply to audio amplifiers? Again, this is a simplification of a fairly complex idea. People buy "watts per channel", but they listen to "amperage". In most cases, a 100 watt/channel amp that has 30 amps current delivery will not sound as good as an 80 watts/channel amp that has 50 amps of current delivery. This is one of the two main reasons* why most folks feel that tube amps sound better than sand amps (solid state). Generally, the amp with the higher amperage rating will sound "better" than one that has a lower amperage rating.

High-current amps exert more control over the movement of the speaker's drivers, especially the woofers. This is why you will read reviewers' comments that state that the higher amperage amplifier had more "guts" or sounded "ballsier" than its lower current competitor. And, in the real world, I have found this to be true. I used to have an NAD 3150 and an NAD 2150 integrated amps that were bridged to run in mono, one amp for each channel. In this configuration, they were kicking out about 170 watts/channel. Keep in mind that this amp is rated at 50 watts/channel when running non-bridged. And these amps had high-current capability and they sounded VERY good for the money I paid.

So, long story short, look for amps that have high-current capability - they will generally sound better than amps that deliver less amperage. Good examples of high-current amps are Harman/Kardon, Hafler, Butler, Bryston, and NAD.

I have always sought out amps that had high-current capability and it seems that the speakers I prefer like to be fed with high-current amps. All other things being equal, always go with the high-current amp.


*The other main reason is that tube amps output their distortion with even order harmonics, SS amps produce odd order harmonic distortion. Apparently, even order harmonic distortion is more "pleasing" to the ear than is odd order harmonic distortion."


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:22 AM.


© 2003-2021 Advameg, Inc.