Obama ~ The Issues (American, quotes, memory, 1984, Hang)

Trauma · 10-23-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

**Having gone to a private college, i can tell you that it just isn’t that hard to afford ~ between the student loans, work-study and some scholarships (grants are also available)

WendyCal · 10-23-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

The "family unit" as was called above, should have no say in if a woman wants to do something involving growths in her body. You wouldn't throw a fit over if someone had a tumor remove and didn't inform the family of it, would you?

Family privacy? Piss off. The privacy of the individual is vastly more important.

You're right. Unfortunately, the laws we live under don't classify a girl as a woman until she is 18 years old, and i can promise you this ~ i had NOTHING to do with THAT!

WendyCal · 10-23-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibber

How is this an "invasion of family privacy?" It may be undermining a parent's right to know what is going on with their child, but even then I would say that's a stretch. His stance on this is really just an extension of patient/doctor confidentiality. It is not the state's responsibility to monitor the extent to which parents are in touch with the children's lives. If a teenager chooses to sneak over the state line to get an abortion, that is her decision to tell her parents or not. Just like a teen can go to her family doctor and get a prescription for birth control without the knowledge of the parent.

It's the law, that people are not considered "of age," and completely responsible for their own actions until they are 18.

i think i pretty well answered this, above.

WendyCal · 10-23-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibber

I regards to the health care statement. You really should have looked at what his policies will be before you posted such an alarmist statement such as that. He WILL NOT force everyone in the country into his defined health care plan. If you have health care through your employer, you will be able to keep it. If you are currently uninsured, he would give the opportunity to buy into a federal health care plan similar to the one available for members of congress. Small businesses will be given tax breaks to help them afford to cover their employees. Larger businesses will be be compensated for lowering premiums with help in paying catastrophic health costs. now with a little bit of research, it is now quite clear that your blanket statement of obama's healthcare plan is completely unfounded.

i'm not sure what sort of blanket statement you think i made about the healthcare plan, but i was speaking to the main policy at the top of the post, about the Budget & Economy. i haven't gotten to the healthcare plan, itself, yet.

Barnard17 · 10-23-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

He works, hand in hand, with those other state officials, to (i would hope) better the bad situation, which is getting worse. Whatever they are doing, from the senate on down, it isn't working.

You don't ... really know what the senate does, do you?

The Senate is on a supra-State level. It is above the state. It deals with national and international legislation. It is a branch of the national legislature. The situation that a state is in is the duty of the states Governor, the situation that a city is in is the duty of the cities Mayor. Obama is not in control. Unless you have specific instances to cite in which Obama has had a hand to play, your entire statement becomes non sequitur ad hominem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

They weren't 'merrily' (did you mean happily?) left out ~ i figured that y'all might want to do some checking of your own.

Welcome to debate club, where if you make a claim (ie the situation in Chicago is the responsibility of solely the current governance it has) you back it up (ie by proving that they and only they have been the instigators of the current state of affairs). Not very complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

i think parents should be responsible for their children and teach them, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN VALUES, as is their right. And if you don't like it being a parent's right, you're going to have to take that up with a court of law.

A "Right" is something written on a piece of paper. It's no more valid or true in and of itself other than to say that it is enacted upon. There is no such thing as a "Right" other than a figure of speech and the impact it has when used.

What you say is more just a continuation of the same "the family unit can never be wrong" idiocy rather than an actual rebut. The fact that such idiocy is backed up by legislation is really neither here nor there.

If it's a Right (that thing that exists only on paper) is so important why do you seem so ignorant of the Hippocratic Oath? Do they not expect nurses to take it? The "Right" of patient confidentiality to have their issues stay between them and a doctor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

Didn't i cite my source ~ onthe issues.com? Shall i go copy it?

You may have posted reference to the website. But then, what you posted was "Rejects free market vision of government. (Oct 2007)" followed by what you phrased to be your conclusions based purely upon that statement. If you were making statements directed at more specific statements rather than that blanket region of political thinking, you should have quoted the specific items which you were debating.

Quote:

Welcome to debate club, where if you make a claim you back it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="navy"]Yeppers, i'm one of the most uncaring, unfeeling folks you'd ever want to run across ~ that's probably why i was nurse, caring for the sick and dying, for years. It cost me, alrighty ~ time, effort, and money, not to mention a little piece of my heart every time the job was over.

And yet the views you hold are somehow so ... nonchalant towards human suffering. Working a job doesn't mean you live it. Not all "Priests" are "good Christians".

anticipation · 10-23-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendyCal

Okay, so it would appear that i haven't been banned (yet!

) and i would like to discuss some of this with y'all.

i'd like to start with a little background. This is partially from an 'e' i received:

Pull out of Iraq? Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago.

Body Count Jan 2008 ~ Jul 2008:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago (Chicago Tribune)
221 killed (casualities) in Iraq (iCasualties)

Chicago ~ Who Runs it:

Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich
Illinois House leader Mike Madigan
Illinois Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)

Thank all of you for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they're all blaming each other ~
can't blame Republicans ~

there aren't any...

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.

This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois.

The State’s Pension Funds have been decimated by out-of-control, run-away spending.

A Pension Fund is where you pay in so much for years and years and years, and then, when you retire, they give you back your money, a little at a time (monthly) or in a lump sum, for which you pay a substantial penalty. These monies are what you could have invested in other financial instruments, like a savings account, and made MORE back from. So in other words, not only are these greedy basters spending every cent of the interest YOUR money is earning (part of which IS theirs, of course), they are also spending your ACTUAL MONEY. Oh, and this isn’t happening just in Illinois, but it’s where the candidate is from, and his track record bears looking at.

go fuck yourself,

you don't live in illinois and therefore you don't know shit about illinois.

WendyCal · 10-23-2008, 03:46 PM

i need to take care of some other things before it gets dark, but i'll be back!

Barnard17 · 10-23-2008, 04:12 PM

Thanks for that post then. Just so you know, I'm about to go take a shit. Don't panic though, I WILL return. Give me 10 minutes or so.

Fruitonica · 10-23-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

i'm sorry if you have a problem with the state raising our children, but it's a little too 1984 for me. i think parents should be responsible for their children and teach them, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN VALUES, as is their right. And if you don't like it being a parent's right, you're going to have to take that up with a court of law.

This isn't the state raising the child, there is no government control so the 1984 statement is out of place. This is simply Obama supporting patient doctor confidentiality.

And Fal is correct, the family unit is often wrong. Many of these young women have legitimate reasons to hide their abortion from their parents.
Hell, last month I bought weed off a chick whose parents had kicked her out of home at seventeen because she was pregnant. The point being that too often parents react with anger and not logic.

Barnard17 · 10-23-2008, 05:57 PM

I've read 1984 and the amount that gets compared to it without any relevance at all what so ever begs belief.

10-23-2008, 03:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
WendyCal Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 271	i need to take care of some other things before it gets dark, but i'll be back!

10-23-2008, 04:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Thanks for that post then. Just so you know, I'm about to go take a shit. Don't panic though, I WILL return. Give me 10 minutes or so.

10-23-2008, 05:57 PM	#20 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	I've read 1984 and the amount that gets compared to it without any relevance at all what so ever begs belief.