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Old 10-23-2008, 01:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Smile Obama ~ The Issues

Okay, so it would appear that i haven't been banned (yet! ) and i would like to discuss some of this with y'all.

i'd like to start with a little background. This is partially from an 'e' i received:

Pull out of Iraq? Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago.

Body Count Jan 2008 ~ Jul 2008:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago (Chicago Tribune)
221 killed (casualities) in Iraq (iCasualties)

Chicago ~ Who Runs it:

Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich
Illinois House leader Mike Madigan
Illinois Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)

Thank all of you for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they're all blaming each other ~
can't blame Republicans ~

there aren't any...

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.

This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois.

The State’s Pension Funds have been decimated by out-of-control, run-away spending.

A Pension Fund is where you pay in so much for years and years and years, and then, when you retire, they give you back your money, a little at a time (monthly) or in a lump sum, for which you pay a substantial penalty. These monies are what you could have invested in other financial instruments, like a savings account, and made MORE back from. So in other words, not only are these greedy basters spending every cent of the interest YOUR money is earning (part of which IS theirs, of course), they are also spending your ACTUAL MONEY. Oh, and this isn’t happening just in Illinois, but it’s where the candidate is from, and his track record bears looking at.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Obama On
all of these are taken from onthe issues.org

Abortion

We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)

No, we can’t find ‘common ground’ and anyone who says or thinks that we can is confused.

Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)

So, even though sometimes he thinks that abortion is just the removal of an invasive organism, other times, he thinks that abortion is really just murder. And even though he sometimes thinks abortion is murder, he’s still down with it.

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)

In conjunction with the above, i have a REAL problem with this.

Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)

Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)

These i have a problem with on the basis that it is an invasion of family privacy.

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Old 10-23-2008, 01:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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On Budget & Economy

Rejects free market vision of government. (Oct 2007)

??? From the sounds of it, he doesn’t believe that we should have the choice of where we go for our pension investments, healthcare insurance, education, or child-care. The state will tell us where they decided to invest our retirement monies (spooky, because of what’s going on right now in Chicago with the state pensions). The state will tell us where to take/send our children for daycare ~ he has lots of Early Educational program plans in the making. The state will tell us where to go for our ‘free’ healthcare (again, HMO ring any bells?) and rest assured that the working folks WILL be paying SOMETHING for this service ~ it will only be ‘free’ to folks that aren’t working. Last, but not least, free education. Well, not exactly free ~ BILLIONS of tax dollars will be going to fund this.

**Having gone to a private college, i can tell you that it just isn’t that hard to afford ~ between the student loans, work-study and some scholarships (grants are also available), i had a little garage apt. and used car, some groceries in the kitch, beer in the fridge, you know.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hopefully, this is more what you had in mind, Sleepy Jack.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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RE: Illinois, Obama is a Senator. His voice is on the national scale not the State scale. The political situation there is irrelevant because he has no control over it, unlike in the case of Palin who is Governor ergo has direct control and responsibility. It's a non sequitur attack. Also, what's the background of Chicago? At what point did the Democrats take control? Who was in control before hand? How long has the current organisation been in control and so on and so forth. These are merrily left out of the e-mail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyCal View Post
These i have a problem with on the basis that it is an invasion of family privacy.
I live in a state of perpetual confusion at people who seem convinced that the family unit knows best in every family and every situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyCal View Post
Rejects free market vision of government. (Oct 2007)

Words, words, words.
No. Not "from the sounds of it", what has he SAID he will do. "Reject free market vision" is a VERY blanket statement, so instead of making assumptions as to what you think he means by that why not post what he's actually said he'll do?!

Regarding free healthcare, why does it so often seem that swathes of Americans stick their heads in the sand and ignore that so many other countries have it and it works? Hell, if I get ill I'd rather go to Cuba than America. I'd get the best damn healthcare in the world, and it'd be free for a citizen. I also realise that you apparently have a total lack of conscience but we do, in fact, live in a day and age where we can help those who are too sick and dieing to help themselves. And if that means few dollars of your tax money goes towards that it really won't be the end of the world. What's more important, owning the biggest and best Ferrari or getting somebody antibiotics so that they won't die of infection. Or is it only pro-life when it won't cost you anything? (lol hypocrisy)

Last edited by Barnard17; 10-23-2008 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The "family unit" as was called above, should have no say in if a woman wants to do something involving growths in her body. You wouldn't throw a fit over if someone had a tumor remove and didn't inform the family of it, would you?

Family privacy? Piss off. The privacy of the individual is vastly more important.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyCal View Post
Obama On
all of these are taken from onthe issues.org

Abortion

We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)

No, we can’t find ‘common ground’ and anyone who says or thinks that we can is confused.

Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)

So, even though sometimes he thinks that abortion is just the removal of an invasive organism, other times, he thinks that abortion is really just murder. And even though he sometimes thinks abortion is murder, he’s still down with it.

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)

In conjunction with the above, i have a REAL problem with this.

Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)

Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)

These i have a problem with on the basis that it is an invasion of family privacy.

How is this an "invasion of family privacy?" It may be undermining a parent's right to know what is going on with their child, but even then I would say that's a stretch. His stance on this is really just an extension of patient/doctor confidentiality. It is not the state's responsibility to monitor the extent to which parents are in touch with the children's lives. If a teenager chooses to sneak over the state line to get an abortion, that is her decision to tell her parents or not. Just like a teen can go to her family doctor and get a prescription for birth control without the knowledge of the parent.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I regards to the health care statement. You really should have looked at what his policies will be before you posted such an alarmist statement such as that. He WILL NOT force everyone in the country into his defined health care plan. If you have health care through your employer, you will be able to keep it. If you are currently uninsured, he would give the opportunity to buy into a federal health care plan similar to the one available for members of congress. Small businesses will be given tax breaks to help them afford to cover their employees. Larger businesses will be be compensated for lowering premiums with help in paying catastrophic health costs. now with a little bit of research, it is now quite clear that your blanket statement of obama's healthcare plan is completely unfounded.
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Old 10-23-2008, 03:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fal View Post
RE: Illinois, Obama is a Senator. His voice is on the national scale not the State scale. The political situation there is irrelevant because he has no control over it, ...
He works, hand in hand, with those other state officials, to (i would hope) better the bad situation, which is getting worse. Whatever they are doing, from the senate on down, it isn't working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fal View Post
Also, what's the background of Chicago? At what point did the Democrats take control? Who was in control before hand? How long has the current organisation been in control and so on and so forth. These are merrily left out of the e-mail.
They weren't 'merrily' (did you mean happily?) left out ~ i figured that y'all might want to do some checking of your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fal View Post
I live in a state of perpetual confusion at people who seem convinced that the family unit knows best in every family and every situation.
i'm sorry if you have a problem with the state raising our children, but it's a little too 1984 for me. i think parents should be responsible for their children and teach them, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN VALUES, as is their right. And if you don't like it being a parent's right, you're going to have to take that up with a court of law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fal View Post
No. Not "from the sounds of it", what has he SAID he will do. "Reject free market vision" is a VERY blanket statement, so instead of making assumptions as to what you think he means by that why not post what he's actually said he'll do?!
Didn't i cite my source ~ onthe issues.com? Shall i go copy it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fal View Post
Regarding free healthcare, why does it so often seem that swathes of Americans stick their heads in the sand and ignore that so many other countries have it and it works? Hell, if I get ill I'd rather go to Cuba than America. I'd get the best damn healthcare in the world, and it'd be free for a citizen. I also realise that you apparently have a total lack of conscience but we do, in fact, live in a day and age where we can help those who are too sick and dieing to help themselves. And if that means few dollars of your tax money goes towards that it really won't be the end of the world. What's more important, owning the biggest and best Ferrari or getting somebody antibiotics so that they won't die of infection. Or is it only pro-life when it won't cost you anything? (lol hypocrisy)
Yeppers, i'm one of the most uncaring, unfeeling folks you'd ever want to run across ~ that's probably why i was nurse, caring for the sick and dying, for years. It cost me, alrighty ~ time, effort, and money, not to mention a little piece of my heart every time the job was over.

Please don't presume to know me, okay?
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