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View Poll Results: The problem?
**** those non-English twats stealin' our jobs! 2 11.76%
The Daily Mail said black people are bad so it must be true! 2 11.76%
No, people like that woman are the problem! 7 41.18%
That was disgraceful! They didn't even shake hands! 1 5.88%
Can't we all just get along? 5 29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Right. Why should we trust a peer reviewed academic study on the subject, when a teenager is willing to place a bet?
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Right. Why should we trust a peer reviewed academic study on the subject, when a teenager is willing to place a bet?
How about one from the very same professor you quoted?

Quote:
In this article, I wish to make three broad points:

• 
Ethnic diversity will increase substantially in virtually all modern societies over the next several decades, in part because of immigration. Increased immigration and diversity are not only inevitable, but over the long run they are also desirable. Ethnic diversity is, on balance, an important social asset, as the history of my own country demonstrates.
• 
In the short to medium run, however, immigration and ethnic diversity challenge social solidarity and inhibit social capital. In support of this provocative claim I wish to adduce some new evidence, drawn primarily from the United States. In order to elaborate on the details of this new evidence, this portion of my article is longer and more technical than my discussion of the other two core claims, but all three are equally important.
• 
In the medium to long run, on the other hand, successful immigrant societies create new forms of social solidarity and dampen the negative effects of diversity by constructing new, more encompassing identities. Thus, the central challenge for modern, diversifying societies is to create a new, broader sense of ‘we’.
Diversity and Community in the Twenty-first Century

check your sources.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Right. Why should we trust a peer reviewed academic study on the subject, when a teenager is willing to place a bet?
I won't lie: arguing like this is pretty much ad-hominem. Please look at the issues, saying I'm just a teenager and therefore can't be trusted makes as much sense as me saying something as ridiculous as "Well you're American, so you clearly haven't got anything useful to say about something clearly relating to Britain".

It's the whole point of you cherry picking this article which is causing concern here, not my age.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I won't lie: arguing like this is pretty much ad-hominem. Please look at the issues, saying I'm just a teenager and therefore can't be trusted makes as much sense as me saying something as ridiculous as "Well you're American, so you clearly haven't got anything useful to say about something clearly relating to Britain".

It's the whole point of you cherry picking this article which is causing concern here, not my age.
May I ask why you're resurrecting this thread? If it was because of the last point you raised, that's been addressed.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
May I ask why you're resurrecting this thread?
I was ordered to in a PM by one of the top geezers around here, since there ought to be some more to discuss on this topic.
Quote:
If it was because of the last point you raised, that's been addressed.
I really don't feel it has. Firstly, you seemed to completely ignore this.
And secondly there's the issue of the ad-hominem you used on me. If you're in the right here, why on earth do you have to resort to such fallacies?

The point was, if you look at this quote from the article:

Quote:
the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings.
There is a problem here. Look at the kind of environment in which communities are more diverse. Just because the community in general appears to be more mistrustful of each other than in less diverse communities, where is the evidence that this can be blamed directly on the fact that the community is more diverse?

What we must do is to look at the type of community that is less diverse: they are usually affluent and consist of people with a disposable income. This means, therefore, that crime will be less, because if you are already wealthy you don't need to steal, and are therefore more trustful of each other.

When a community is more diverse, it means there will be people who have recently moved into the country, and these people will not necessarily have much money, since they will very rarely have a job when they arrive. Therefore, they will only be able to afford housing in the cheapest area, which is usually the inner city, where the community in general is poor and the crime rates are higher.

For an example, my nearest city is Manchester, England. To get to the city centre, we have to drive through areas such as Rusholme, Longsight and Fallowfield, which are very ethnically diverse, but also extremely poor. The crime rate is very high, and in the space of two months, three of my friends have been mugged in local parks and there have been two murders.

Now, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL that this high crime rate is caused by diversity? Not at all, because the area was poor to start off with, the people have LESS disposable income and the crime rate is high anyway.

What I have found is that you're forgetting that correlation does NOT necessitate causation, and that you always have to look for outside factors.

Last edited by Salami; 03-03-2012 at 02:00 PM. Reason: The original post pretty much only said "piss off"
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I dunno, Moonlight. If I had to guess, Salami is bringing a quarrel he has with me from another thread into this one.

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Well, I don't quite know what on earth you want me to provide sources for, but I'll give you something to chew on: here is a body of research done to demonstrate how exactly inner city environments are composed.

You'll see that not only is there high unemployment, but also high ethnic diversity, which is because people who are newly settled into a country have no job and therefore have to find a cheap place to live, which is the inner city, the poorest part of a conurbation.
To quote your source, "Inner cities are defined as core urban areas that are economically distressed." That's on page 4. So, yes, when you define inner city as poor.... the area is going to be poor. No surpirse there.

Now, what should you provide references for? You should provide references for the claims you're making, such as:

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What we must do is to look at the type of community that is less diverse: they are usually affluent and consist of people with a disposable income.
&

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salami View Post
When a community is more diverse, it means there will be people who have recently moved into the country, and these people will not necessarily have much money, since they will very rarely have a job when they arrive. Therefore, they will only be able to afford housing in the cheapest area, which is usually the inner city, where the community in general is poor and the crime rates are higher.
&

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In diverse communities, I'm prepared to bet that half the people have arrived relatively recently, and therefore less likely to be trusted anyway.
Etc.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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(if only there were some kind of racist-getting-burned-by-his-own-cherrypicking-of-the-facts emoticon)
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Why on earth would anyone be against multiculturalism? And I am Anti-Culture!
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It overemphasis the point that diversity can breed mistrust and disregards the point that mistrust dissolves as a new identity is forged. The hard data comes from field research, It's impossible to conduct field research on the future so he looked to the past for examples, Religion being used as an example where ethnic identity is abandoned for a religious one.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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What a dimwit. If I were there I would have told her to get off, I did so to a lady swearing profusely at a bus driver for supposedly over charging her in front of her children. She had given the driver the wrong information which was quite clear but she was so determined to get her way. I think it's incredibly inappropriate to swear in front of children! I told her to get off the bus and she so delicately responded "fuck you you fucking bitch". I smiled and after one more rant she got off.
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