Unknown Soldier

You should be, they love to mug Asian guys, they're easy prey and all

Howard the Duck

a lot of fraud going round here actually involving blacks

and prostitution - cos them horndogs just dig exotica

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

Howard the Duck

^^PM me if you want to discuss, ahem, race relation problems

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

MoonlitSunshine

It's probably worth noting that you're both using different countries for examples - the demographic layout and diversity in the USA and the UK are markedly different, as is immigration. You seem to be making great reference to illegal immigration, Salami, which is only a portion of the total immigration of any country. Indeed, more diversity is likely to arise through legal immigration in the US than illegal immigration, since the only people really in a position to immigrate illegally are on the other side of the mexican border. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

The UK on the other hand has to deal with a gradual seep if immigrants coming through other European countries from pretty much all over the Eurasian continent and Africa. What's the difference? Well, Legal immigrants are much more likely to be able to support themselves or already have a job lined up (in order to be able to immigrate in the first place). That then negates the argument that diversity -> poverty. While it is certainly one reason why there might be more crime/less community involvement in diverse areas, it is certainly not the only one.

There is definitely a trust issue in the world at the moment, which I think is much of what hip hop bunny hop is saying. There are examples in every single country in the world of how birds of a feather flock together: Ex-patriate communities in every country in the world, sometimes to have a reminder of home, more often because the members are unwilling to immerse themselves in the local environment. There are serious problems in pretty much ever western european country at the moment with immigrant communities deliberately isolating themselves from the natives, particularly with Muslim communities attempting to push through the right to govern themselves under Sharia Law rather than the laws of the country itself (something I personally have serious problems with). Given the climate of tension and war in the world at the moment, it is hardly surprising that communities are drawing in on themselves and excluding those they don't know.


Finally, I don't really know what you two are arguing about.

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"I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"

- Arthur Dent

Unknown Soldier

Yes legal immigrants usually do have jobs lined up, but unless they are professionals or non-professionals with a good salary, they will still end up living in more impoverished areas anyway or cramped conditions. The point that Salami is making and you seem to be agreeing with, is that its actually irrelevant on the ethnic make-up of an impoverished area in relation to crime. Impoverished areas are crime ridden in general, regardless of whether its solely a black or white area or mixed racially, this pattern can be seen across most of the UK, that seems to be the issue that Salami is taking up with HHBH.

You mention about serious problems with some immigrants not immersing themselves into the native communities, well I'm not sure how old you are but I can tell you that it has been that way since the 1970s and its no different today, the only difference today is that its more highlighted by media. I would actually say that Asians (Indians and Pakistanis) are more immersed than they were ever before.

The tensions that you're referring to, I guess are the continuing economic crisis but as for wars!!! There are no more skirmishes today than there were before.

hip hop bunny hop

erm, this point is acutally addressed in this study:

link

:p

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Have mercy on the poor.

Unknown Soldier

I've read through most of the article and it does correspond with most of what I've put forward above, but what it does say and what any person with an anti-immigration stance may jump upon, are the short term problems of immigration and ethnic diversity to the local community. It mentions in one stance that immigrants seek out their own ethnic group, well Immigrants normally have it hard anyway coming into a new cultural environment and are normally starting at the bottom of economic ladder, so its normal that they would seek out their own racial group initially. They may even come into conflict with other immigrants and the local native community as well (this has often happened in both the UK and USA). But these are short term issues that often on average last the current generation, as its normally the children of the immigrants that will go onto benefit long term (that's not to say that the immigrant himself/herself will also not greatly benefit as well) Immigration is like any relationship and it takes time to work.

The article also accepts that immigration and ethnic diversity are irreversable factors in the modern world and as long as the world is faced with economic imbalances that will remain so. Probably 75% of all those that emigrate do so for economic reasons and not for because they hate their homeland (unless they are facing war or persecution) which then comes under refugee or PA emigration.

Just remember HHBH your ancestors were once immigrants and probably stuck with their own as well and probably would've had it hard, unless of course you are from native American stock.

MoonlitSunshine

Aye, I know. a lot of these problems go back a long way. If anything, the simple fact that nothing has been done to help that is worrysome enough. Globalisation, you would think, would be helping break down the barriers between cultures, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

I agree with Salami in that there is a correlation between crime and the simple poverty of the area, but I disagree with him in that he seems to be implying that that is the sole reason. There is a distrust between different cultures, and it isn't helping.

__________________
"I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"

- Arthur Dent

Unknown Soldier

It all comes down to economics, when people are earning and in employment most people get on well with their neighbours regardless of who they are. When they're not earning and in employment, relations become more strained and new immigrants become the target for that scorn and that is what's happening today. Human beings are rather simple characters really when it comes to economics.

Salami

I'd probably be better off saying right now that I really don't want to give that impression in the slightest: it would be naive to assume that completely opposite cultures could just settle down and get on perfectly if the society they were in was wealthy.
All I'm opposing here is racism, and trying to say that a multicultural society can exist if given the proper attention and imput.

Now, since I've recently discovered that sex is far more fun that this thread, I'll leave Unknown Soldier and MoonlitSunshine to do all the talking - they know what they're talking about a lot more than me and what they say is a lot more worth reading than mine.