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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
Oojay is right though- death IS a natural part of living, and it is something that nearly every single living thing on this planet will go through. It's pointless being scared or worried about it, because we were 'dead' millions of years before our death and will be so again for probably the same period of time. Richard Dawkins argues that it's like a ruler- your life marked out on some universal ruler is tiny, if not practically non-existant, and so to worry about death is pointless.
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I agreed with him maybe you mis-read what I said. I understand that people view death as just another step to take.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
Speaking as someone who has three times attempted suicide, I find this completely and utterly ridiculous. People who commit suicide and succeed in doing so have taken an action which takes a hell of a lot of balls. You might not agree with that decision but taking the choice to end your life is an incredibly difficult one. It's not something you do on a whim, and most people who commit suicide KNOW there's no coming back, no changing your mind once you're hanging there/taking the pills/jumping from a great big building.
My first suicide attempt was an attempt to hang myself. I went to my garage, got the tow rope from the cupboard that I had planned to use and made the noose. All the time I knew what I was doing, I knew that if I went through with this, I would die, end of story. No going back.
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I know you are coming into the discussion late but I already talked about that and I will just re-quote myself.
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I agree with some of the points Dirty made but not all of them. Suicide is cowardly AND selfish. Most people that attempt suicide and fail is because they were too much of a coward to do it the right way and off their selves. The people that constantly talk about suicide and keep threatening to do it are also cowardly and just crying out for help. If someone wanted to really commit suicide they would plot out all of the details in there head so there is no way that they can fail and to not set off any alarms so that someone could stop them. They pretend to be happy/normal around people so that they can get it over and done with, without having someone interrupt their process.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
I suffer from both of those and it seems that some people are so damaged by whatever it is they've been hurt by, they simply can't recover. No amount of counselling is going to put things completely right, and no amount of pills. Simply demanding that they continue to suffer is cruel on the part of people who are supposed to give a damn about that person.
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I'm sorry to hear that but some people CAN benefit from help/counseling.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
I am not saying however that suicide is always the answer in these situations, but that you have to understand that getting help isn't always going to do that much good. Sometimes it's like putting a sticking plaster on a broken arm.
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I understand that because I have also had a suicide attempt but I know I didn't really want to off myself and I was just very scared at that point in time.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
I'm currently going through cognitive behavioral therapy for depression, anxiety and self-harm, and although the therapy is helping, it's not a miracle cure and it's not going to cure me of all my issues. Much of what is going on in my head is so deep-rooted and has affected/damaged me so much, it's never going to go away. It's like smashing a pot- you can glue it back together but the cracks are still there, and they will always be weak.
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Yeah, some people are just so far gone that therapy and medication doesn't help too much but I think the number of people those two things DO help far outnumbers the rare people that it doesn't.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
OK, yeah, getting help IS easier. But actively admitting that you need mental help is still hard, and often people are forced to hide their need for treatment like this simply because society DOES demonize it.
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Again, this depends on the person. For example, I could give two ****s that society demonizes it. I mustered up enough courage to go get help and was even put on pills but I don't like them so I stopped taking meds.
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Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112
I've had to hide my own therapy and drug treatments away from everybody simply to avoid the stigma and ridicule which this attracts. My own FAMILY don't even know. Not one of them.
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I do too. I try to act normal around my family but that's because they are the most judgmental of the bunch. It's way easier to talk to strangers and friends about it than it is to talk to family about it. I haven't told any of my family. Families are usually not as understanding bout these sort of things as other people are.
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Originally Posted by oojay
I disagree that all problems have a solution.
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I know you weren't talking to me about this but we will have to agree to disagree on that point.
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Originally Posted by oojay
I think that this is part of the problem. While you can control your own actions, you have no way of controlling others'. You can't stop your wife from leaving you. You can't stop your boss from firing you. You can't control any outside factors that directly affect you.
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True you can't control those factors but you CAN control your reaction to them.
There is this saying "In life it's not about the fall but how you pick yourself up from the fall."
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Originally Posted by oojay
I think we're on the same page here, we're just giving different weight to other people's feelings and emotions. People shouldn't do anything to purposely upset others, but in the end, tough sh*t. People are always going to be upset about something. We cannot control what goes on in their mind, it's not our problem.
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Yep I agree with that. omfg we finally agree on something lol.
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Originally Posted by oojay
I feel that suicide is always a last resort. If a person gets to that point, I would think that they have already looked at every other solution. If they still want to do it after considering everything, then that is their business. I don't think that most suicides are just a spur-of-the-moment decision.
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Well that is not always the case about suicide being the last resort. While the person is under the effects of depression they may feel like it's the last resort but it isn't. Sometimes, they don't even really think about all the options they may have because they are so overwhelmed by their emotions and the pain hurts too much. They just want a release from the pain.