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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
1) We do have their writings, but not the original, handwritten copies. Only copies of copies of copies of transcripts of copies. While it seems overwhelmingly likely that they existed, we cannot be completely sure, that their writings were not written by a small group of conspirators. Perhaps even much later.
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Could be. I guess one never knows. They do have more evidence for their existence than Jesus does though.
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
2) You continue to take that out of a context... You, my friend, need to work on your debating skills. I promise I'll work on my english skills then. What is there is a comparison between Yeshua and an Urban Legend. Both of them developed over a short period of time - as opposed to Hercules, who therefore has nothing to do with this, really - but people would have been much more concerned about the details about Yeshua, since he meant much more to them.
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I posted a quote from you and asked what it meant. How is that taking it out of context?
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
3) Seruously? You want me to do your work? It's not my job to develop counter-thesises, when I'm perfectly fine believing in the dominant one. That would be your job.
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You are the one making the assertion. The burden of proof is on you. Sorry, them's the rules.
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
You, my friend, has stopped seeming like a sceptic to me. You seem more like a denier (which does not mean that you are like other kinds of deniers). But ok. As I see it, there are three thesises:
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Er... okay. If being ambivalent about the issue makes me a denier I guess that's the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
1) Yeshua. What are the problems with this thesis? Yes there is a lack of concrete evidence (if you discount the gospels, the dead sea scrolls and Josephus, which hardly is what a historian would do...), but that isn't really surprising, so it can't be used as evidence against it.
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I would think that a historian who bases their opinions on mythology would be someone who isn't very good at their job but, hey, maybe it's just me.
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
2) Developed out of folklore. Elements of Jesus definitely did so. But some of the details, like dying under Pilatus, like coming from Nazareth. There is such an agreement about this, and it has happened in 40 years, that it seems unlikely. I would say, that there must be some agency behind it.
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There is agreement about a lot of Hercules' life as well I'm sure. I guess that makes him real, right?
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
3) Conspiracy. Some people made it up to further their own goals. But then much of the gospels seem counterproductive. Why would he be from Nazareth? Why would he have followed John the Baptist if he had been the Messiah all along? Why did he talk against giving money to the church (something the church completely negated afterwards, obviously).
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This one seems like a non-point to me.
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Originally Posted by Gregor XIII
I can't see other hypothesis. The story of the creation of the gospels is probably a mixture of the three, but without a healthy dose of 1) it becomes really hard to explain.
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Why?