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Old 07-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #1246 (permalink)
FRED HALE SR.
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Originally Posted by anticipation View Post
Yeah, because Lidstrom won all his hardware by hitting guys right? Visnovsky didn't get nominated the past two years, but a seriously strong case could've been made for last year when he had absolutely insane statistical evidence that showed he faced the toughest competition on his team, had the highest relative +/- on his team, and put up better defensive numbers relative to his zone starts than Weber or Chara. It's easy to discredit him with the old eye test, but the reality of the situation is that players who can wheel and deal while maintaining positive possession help their teams win more frequently than guys who simply have active sticks and play a bruising style. I feel like Girardi was this year's Visnovsky; he and partner Ryan McDonagh faced some of the stiffest competition in the notoriously run-and-gun east for one of the best defensive teams (NYR), and yet still managed to lead the league in playoff points by a defenseman. I like him for the wide array of intangibles he brings, and I think it's safe to say that without him the Rangers would suffer greatly on both ends of the ice. Beauchemin is a defensive stalwart on a terrible team, but he doesn't have the offensive abilities that Suter does.

I think that we get caught up with player's value to the point where we think that if they are simply inserted into a line up the performance of the group will drastically increase. Suter is one of those guys with tremendous individual skills and the ability to make heady plays, but when you break down what he actually brings as opposed to what he's paid to "do" we quickly see that having a diverse top six with a good mix of offensive and defensive responsibility is more valuable than just bringing one guy who has these attributes in spades.
Lidstrom won all those cups because Detroit had all star teams and he just happened to be an all star also. I wouldn't call Niedermayer a beast also, but he knew how to control people along the boards and play both ways that was my point in calling out the mike greens and Visnovskys of the world. I don't discount what Mcdonagh and Girardi did this year, but i think offensive defenseman such as Girardi often pick up offensive numbers at the expense of team play. Beauchemin hasn't been the same since the Cup run. Hes kind of been getting pushed around lately, too bad Scotty can't save him now. I think hes dropped to a top 4 guy on defense and Cam Fowler looked like dog**** on ice last year which didnt help.

I don't think we disagree on what Suter brings, i think we are just wording differently and view what makes a great defense differently. I also think hes not a world stopper and hes not gonna make their defense better unless they can get their kids rolling. I just value offensive defensman less each year as they seem to get pushed around and that usually leads to the puck in your own net.
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