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Old 03-09-2014, 11:05 PM   #7905 (permalink)
Soulflower
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
2Pac was preachy and massively overrated.
Preachy...meaning?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
I can see how his words affected black people struggling to make ends meet and dealing with discrimination at the time,
That is how Hip Hop was created.

So of course his illustrations of how African Americans were being discriminated against is going to impact African Americans since it is relatable.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
but to me there are far more rappers, before and since Pac, that were able to touch more people and be more broadly relatable.
I agree.... but this discussion is between 2pac and Biggie and objectively 2pac was far more talented.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
Pac fans point to his main strength being his lyrical content and his 'message'
That's because he was a talented songwriter. He not only was a rapper but he also was a gifted poet. Messages and lyrical content is important especially in Hip Hop. I just think people say that because unlike Biggie, Snoop Dog, Dr. Dre etc (other rappers of that era) 2pac's lyrics were more complex and discussed deeper issues. He was able to influence people with his music which is more powerful than a gimmicky song.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
but when his lyrics and message don't resonate with the majority of people who listen to hip-hop in modern times (the paradigm has shifted, and a lot of hip-hop fans are white middle class people, i.e. Janzoon, Goofle, Frownland, etc) I don't see how that's a relevant argument in putting him on a pedestal as better than BIG.

There was NEVER a paradigm shift. Hip Hop was not created or intended for white people...PERIOD.

That's the hard truth.

I would not expect for you to understand how during the early 90's black men were getting beat against their will by crooked LA racist cops or how black men get questioned or shot because they are black (Trayvon Martin 2012- still happens today!!) or the socioeconomic inequality that African Americans experience because they are black . You do not experience any of those things because of your skin makes you privileged and I GET that but what you also need to understand is that fake water down imitation of hip hop (Jay Z, Drake, Lil Wayne, Whoeever etc) that is being pushed by the music industry is NOT hip hop.

Radio Hip Hip is water down safe rap music to please white people despite the fact that the genre was created off the struggles and injustice of African Americans. It was a voice for African Americans especially the youth but the system now controls it like they do everything else. Soo it is not meant for you or white people to "get it" because you will never get it.


Hip Hop was never intended for the "majority" so I can understand why you do not "get" 2pac but just because you do not get 2pac does not mean he was not a talented lyrical rapper.Why do you think "this so called paradigm shift" exists now? They do not want the minority to have a voice because that makes the majority "uncomfortable". He was a threat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
BIG was better at the actual art of rapping, he was able to get his words out
BIG has one of the greatest flows in the genre BUT I would say 2pac rivals him there as well. I would even argue that 2pac expressed more emotion, passion and personality when he rapped.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
in more intricate patterns and touch a far wider demographic,
That does not necessarily make him more talented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
even if he had party tunes, there are more people that those will appeal to rather than snoozefests with agonizingly painful choruses such as 'Brenda Has A Baby'
Biggie had fun catchy songs. I have never denied that but he is not lyrically more talented that 2pac and 2pac had fun dance songs to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
However, I don't think ultimately to go to back to Frownland's original post, that it is unpopular to not rate either man too highly. It seems at least among educated music fans that we identify each mans merits and legacies but we acknowledge that they're not as technically gifted as rappers when compared with others such as Nas, Andre 3000, Rakim, Kendrick Lamar, DOOM, Big L, Drake, Pun, etc.

The comparison I made was only between Biggie and Tupac. I never said that Tupac was the greatest rapper of all time BUT between Biggie he is far superior (talent wise).

Besides Nas and Rakim, I would not put those other MC's as among the greats. I like Andre 3000 but I would not say he is one of the "greats" maybe as apart of "Outkast" but even still I would not rank them in Top 10.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankycaaant View Post
I feel though that this is one of the tiredest arguments on this forum, but I'm preparing for a 'here we go again' type feeling.
Let's do it!
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