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Originally Posted by Ninetales
I know orr is great and maybe he is better than gretzky (I think comparing different positions is unfair as is tho, which is why im not going to say hasek > gretzky), but isn't using offensive numbers to show how great a dman is one of the reason guys like Karlsson is so hated now? I mean he has some ridiculous defenseman numbers but people still get pissed when he rightfully wins the Norris. different argument but sue me.
and comparing Orr's ppg with guys like Crosby's is super unfair unless you adjust it for the era.
again not saying orr wasn't the best dman of all time. he very likely is.
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Orr was not sub-par defensively like Karlsson is though. Good offensively does not mean bad defensively. Take a guy like Weber for example; he's a D-man that is elite in both regards. Elite defensemen should have some type of balance between offense and defense because hockey, more so than any sport, has you switching between offense and defense in a heartbeat, and quite often. A guy like Karlsson is not nearly good enough defensively to be that 28 minute-a-night, all-situations workhorse for a team. The Sens do use him that much, but I don't think he impacts the game like a lot of the other elite D-men do because he is pretty poor without the puck.
By all accounts, Orr was elite defensively as well. Sure, he's known more for his offense, but many considered him the best defensive d-man of his time as well, and no one seems to have him at anything less than "good defensively".
When you reflect on a guy like Coffey, some people just absolutely blast him for how poor he was defensively, and it's a main reason why no one has him even close to Orr despite putting up similar offensive numbers in his heyday (along with era-adjusted scoring and surrounding talent, of course).
Thing with Orr is that I don't know if anyone in NHL history has been further ahead of the curve on a physical attribute as Orr was with his skating ability. Even if you just watch highlights of him, it literally looks like he's going up against a bunch of kids sometimes. It's something that let him take huge risks on the ice; he could basically always be back in place if something went wrong.