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Originally Posted by DeadChannel
Probably true, but that doesn't mean it's not worth having the conversation, if only to place your views of the world under the scrutiny of others.
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i'm all for debate. i was saying i don't like the militant athiest approach to debate.
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That's probably true to an extent, but at least we're right 
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the one true church, as the pope would say
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No, but that doesn't mean that religion ought to be off limits. Also, it appears that at least in the west, rates of religiosity are going down, and irreligiosiry going up. So, clearly, having the debate has some effect.
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previously atheism was literally repressed... so clearly making it more of a mainstream concept is going to make it more popular
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The problem is that people shouldn't hate each other over a disagreement. The moment that people get mad about each other views instead of trying to refute them is the moment that discourse goes down the toilet.
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yea... but my fundamental thing here is atheists should think twice about the idea that we should work/strive towards a world without religion. cause that basically sets us on a collision course with these people.
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I agree. I don't see anything wrong with nativity scenes, and I think it's a waste of time to oppose them, but that doesn't mean that there aren't problems worth perusing. For instance, opposition to gay marriage, religiously-motivated discrimination, or the opposition to teaching actual science in the science classroom.
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i completely agree... or more important than any of that, open the liquor store on sundays and on time god damnit
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Ah, yes, John Wilkes Booth is back.
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Originally Posted by Janszoon
No, what motivates them is the fact that it's a violation of church and state separation. You can certainly argue about whether or not that's a good strategy for fighting that battle, but mischaracterizing it just makes it sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
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no... what motivates them is exactly what i said. what gives them a legal case is what you said. they cite the establishment clause of the first amendment, which says something like "congress shall not respect any institution of religion" or some****, not seperation of church and state which is a revisionist interpretation of said clause.
but it could be they're technically right about the establishment clause, and townhall nativity scenes are completely unconstitutional. even so... i'm a advocate of picking your fights... and this one seems to have little to no pragmatic value, it's simply a symbolic fight. and pragmatically we just end up looking like a bunch of grinches, so it might as well be an anti-atheism smear campaign.