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Originally Posted by elphenor
I don't think it's dishonest at all, there's no point in mentioning it he can count on whoever he's talking to
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actually you can't. Destiny failed to properly address this and it just went unnoticed. Many people will vaguely mention the holodomor without any understanding of the actual history or how it ties directly to the industrialization efforts.
So people like Destiny will say things like "sure they grew quick but they could've grown even quicker under capitalism" which is patently absurd. You don't industrialize a massive agrarian country like russia in 5 years through ordinary capitalism. You do it by stealing food from peasants and genociding your own population so you can sell the food stocks on the global capitalist market so you can buy industrial machinery from said capitalist countries. In that way central planning is"efficient" in the same way slavery is efficient. Yes you can raise a lot of money through theft and brutality. What an amazing economic innovation.
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and anyway it's the same argument Chomsky has been lecturing with for 30 years
capitalist countries used slavery, imperialism, extensive protectionism and a whole lotta central planning, yes
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that's simply whatabotism
The entire point of arguing for socialism is to create a system that addresses the abuses and evils of capitalism. Pointing to a model that was even more efficient at brutalizing and oppressing their own population as a success story for central planning is once again dishonest if you don't acknowledge said brutality and if you do acknowledge it then it's just not a good argument. You're supposed to be proposing something better than capitalism and instead you're pointing to something that was just as if not more brutal and exploitative but they just did it quicker and with a higher death toll in a shorter amount of time. Sorry but that's not a compelling point lol.