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Originally Posted by Janszoon
I think around here he is praised a lot actually and in general he seems to be very well-regarded by critics and "serious" music fans alike. On top of that, the man was even nominated for an Oscar at one time. I think it's safe to say that he's a pretty-highly rated artist and for those of us who don't like him, that puts him in the in overrated department. And I'm still unclear how liking Bon Iver makes someone a hypocrite or ignorant for saying that Elliott Smith is overrated. I don't like either one but I've definitely heard a hell of a lot more praise for Elliott Smith over the years than for Bon Iver.
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Elliott Smith didn't even get the Oscar and it was for his work on a soundtrack - and as I stated virtually all the songs (except Miss Misery) came from Either/Or which is his only album that is critically considered his masterpiece (something I acknowledged.) Calling him highly rated is a bit silly, he isn't that acknowledged (with the exception of New Moon which was hyped for a bit in Spin magazine but Spin tends to pander to the alternative crowd anyway and they quickly forgot it) outside the indie circle and the indie circle doesn't always rate him that highly:
Pitchfork: Elliott Smith: Figure 8 This isn't the worst review I've seen for him but the tone of it has been reflected by Pitchfork (and certain devout followers you know who I'm talking about boo boo, the wantas of the world) like he's some sort of melodramatic emo kid.
The reason you've heard more praise for Bon Iver over the years...is because Bon Iver only released an album last year and you're kind of ignoring my point anyway and diving into semantics. My point was it kind of annoys me that jackhammer dismissed Elliott Smith in that manner when the same thing could be said about any of the singer/songwriters he likes. I feel it was disingenuous/dismissive of him.
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Originally Posted by boo boo
There's nothing objective about a band being overrated.
The basic criteria for being overrated is "a lot people love this band but I don't".
Seriously. How do you measure it? Do you take commercial success, critical acclaim, media coverage and the amount of fans all into account?
What happens when these measurements conflict with each other? Say a band gets no respect from critics and no coverage from the media, yet have a HUGE fan following, like Dream Theater. Are they overrated or underrated? Nirvana are commercial and critical darlings, but they get a lot of unfair and biased hate from a lot of people and their fanbase isn't what it used to be. Are they overrated or underrated?
What's the tie breaker? It's our subjective opinions.
Nothing objective about it at all.
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Wrong; your logic is skewed.The tie breaker isn't our subjective opinions because you're basing that opinion (if you take any single one of those criteria, regardless of if they're in conflict with one other) off of something objective - in Dream Theater's case it's their fan base but it would be one thing to say "Dream Theater is overrated by their fans" and another to say "Dream Theater is overrated by their critics" when you don't specify the assumption is that in a general sense they're overrated by everyone.