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Originally Posted by Janszoon
I'm not sure why you keep referring to Pitchfork like it's the end all be all of who is highly rated or not but if you want to talk about Pitchfork, how about the fact that they gave his album New Moon an 8.7/10 and listed XO as one of the top 100 albums of the 90s?
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I don't "keep referring to Pitchfork" I've mentioned them twice now. Once was pointing out that Bon Iver was hyped an incredible amount by Pitchfork (who wield a good deal of influence, particularly in the indie scene) and the other was to point out he isn't unanimously loved by critics. Neither situation was me treating it like they were the "end all be all" I was just using them as an example because of the amount of influence they have in the indie scene. You're overstating the importance I place in them.
That being said I stated Elliott Smith was popular in the indie scene - which Pitchfork is apart of so pointing out that Pitchfork loves most of his albums (something I never denied) doesn't really prove anything and before you say then it's hypocritical to use them as an example of Smith getting trashed that was to prove the point that he isn't even unanimously loved in the indie scene (Figure 8 was a commercial bomb everywhere else and it led DreamWorks to drop him.)
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Also, so what if he didn't win the Oscar? Being nominated and performing at the Oscars are a big deal all by itself. I don't think Bon Iver or John Martyn were ever nominated for an Oscar.
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Yeah and Elliott Smith didn't receive a Lifetime Achievement Award like John Martyn did. I don't really know what you're trying to prove with the Oscar point - the song itself wouldn't have been nominated if Good Will Hunting hadn't been such a popular film with big name actors.
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Sure the same could be said of the other singer/songwriters. If you feel that John Martyn or Bon Iver (who I'm pretty sure is not an individual singer/songwriter but rather the name of a band) are overrated you should feel free to say so. That's the whole point of this thread. And I'm sure people would be happy to debate you about it but I would hope that they wouldn't get all testy and start insulting you.
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I never insulted jackhammer. I said his opinion was ignorant and stupid - probably a bit harsh but I feel it was and I think the fact he won't defend it himself says enough in itself.