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Originally Posted by VeggieLover
the straining for elegance is what makes us human. Whether or not the fight is ever "won" is really beside the point. Striving for an ideal sets the stage for progress, without it we fall into lethargy. How many revolutions have been staged on the basis of creating a classless utopian society? Have any of them succeeded for any length of time? no, but does that mean that we should stop trying to make the world a place where anyone and everyone should have the opportunities to provide for themselves and their families in a way that goes beyond survival?
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So you want to get rid of cultural diversity?
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However, Feminism is a movement that has not only provided women with a purpose and a cause, but also has made tremendous progress in changing the way women (and all humans) are viewed in society today. We are that much closer to the ideal. When men, women, blacks, whites, browns (or blues for that matter!), jews, christians, muslims, and pagans alike can be treated in society equally -- to a society when the people who deserve something get it...regardless of "who they are".
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Again I never said feminism didn't have a purpose, of course it did. What I'm saying is that there's nothing for feminist activists to do now other than to bitch over stupid sh*t and insult people who don't share their ideals.
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Feminism doesn't fight the media simply because it portrays "pretty," thin, large busted women, because yes, these women do exist and should be allowed -- nay, encouraged-- to feel pretty.
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Ok, so you're not batsh*t crazy, that's good to know.
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The problem arises when these women are ALL thats shown in the media. When they are presented as the ONLY ideal of beauty.
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I know, but it doesn't justify personally insulting women who do happen to fit that ideal.
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How many little girls have grown up watching the mentioned Disney movies, how many have been trained to want as their most powerful attribute a tall, thin, big eyed body in order to attract prince charming! These things aren't bad, but when they are held higher in esteem than good conversation, knowledge, humanity, and friendship
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Those are all values that ring true for most female leads in Disney films.
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they can harbor unhealthy implications. Eating disorders plague millions of girls and women (and yes, men too!), and this in the same world in which millions starve to death! Being thin and fit is NOT bad, its just been elevated to a position it never should have reached. We as people need to start putting forth ideals more balanced, rearrange our priorities, and then the media will reflect that.
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Agreed.
And again my problem is that radical feminists do to true feminist ideas what Fred Phelps does to true Christian ideals, they make a mockery of their cause and give it a bad reputation.
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You argue that men never complain about the way the media portrays them in the media, well I say, you should! Feminism has gathered momentum because women have been oppressed for soo long. If the media (which can be considered the visual embodiment of a society) oppresses the image of the ideal man, then fight it! There is a lot more to life than sex and sexuality, in case you didn't notice.
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It doesn't bother me what the f*cking media does, and feminism is based on the idea that women only know how to do what other people tell them, and I know that's not true.
If a lot of women only want to f*ck A&F models, so what? As unrealistic as that may be, I'm not gonna force my pale hairy nerd ass down their throats because I don't meet their sexual preference.
The idea of feminism should be as basic as women doing whatever the hell they want (and fighting for the right to do it) and not give a damn, not force their ideals down our throats.
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You are oppressing feminists in the same way that you argue they oppress the rest of women and men. Not all feminists (indeed, not even the majority!) strive to catagorize women into "GI janes." Infact, that incredible generalization is exactly what the ideals of feminism are agianst. People are radically different from eachother, whether they are male or female, and whenever we try and put large groups of people into little boxes based on the actions of a few radicals, well thats what we should all try and fight
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I'm talking about a specific attitude just like people talk about a specific attitude when it comes to fundamentalist christians.
It's pretty damn clear I don't think all feminists meet the profile of what I'm talking about. I'm pro diversity and my problem is feminists who contradict themselves.
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Also, you say women should dress/act sexy if they want to. The question is... would they want to if the media and our society handled sexuality and attractive-ness differently? Would you be so attracted to the thin large-breasted women if you hadn't been raised to do so?
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That's a stupid argument, first off we all take our ideas and values from others, there's nothing wrong with that it's human nature. Also you could make the argument that women only want to make themselves unattractive for the same reason.
What people do or don't do is influenced by their upbringing, I'm aware of that. But while society shapes us to be a certain way, being driven to make yourself into the exact opposite of what society tells you to be and then tell other people that they should be like you and do the same is yet another form of comformity. Actually it's not "another form" at all, it's the same thing, yet at a primitive stage.
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Personally it offends me that the photo of Beth Ditto is such a big deal. Larger women (and men) shouldn't have any more reason to be ashamed of their bodies than anyone else. We're all human!
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I don't hate her because she's ugly, I hate her because she's ugly and she crams it down peoples f*cking throats.
Just a little respect for other peoples ideals and preferences would be nice, if I find someone to be ugly, so what? I don't tell them they're ugly personally, so in return they shouldn't get naked in front of me, call me a sexist and expect me not to tell them what I think.
If people don't like something about you, ignore them, and that includes having the common courtesy not to rub it in their face. Women like Ditty who make a public event out of posing nude for a magazine and get pissed when people give their opinions are only demeaning themselves further.
In other words. A fat ugly woman getting naked in front of me knowing damn well it's gonna get a disgusted reaction is the equivalent of farting in someones face and then bitching at them for gagging.