Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome
No. It's not murder.
We are omnivores. We are simply surviving.
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Captain Awesome, do you mean eating animals was a behavior necessary for survival
in the past when our ancestors were gatherer-hunters? Or do you mean it is a survival mechanism required
now in some developing countries where poor people are desperate for food and so will eat anything? Or do you mean that eating animals is a survival requirement in the developed world today, such as in the U.S., Canada, and most of Europe?
Since I survive fine without eating any animal parts at all, I would argue that eating animals is *not* required for survival. If it were, then I would be dead. Since I am alive, I am living proof that eating animals is not an issue of simply surviving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome
These animals are going to die anyway, as far as I'm concerned it's just survival on our part. Like I said, we are omnivores. Why do people worry so much about other species? I mean I'm all for saving extinct animals etc but when you've got genocide, corrupt governments, disease and famine (plus a bunch of other crap) threatening your own species. You better take care of that first.
Have no mistake, if an animal (omnivore or carnivore) feels hungry it won't have any moral dilemma about eating you.
Can't remember what movie it was but there was this horror movie where this vegan chick saved a dog near the start. Later on she was cut open and as she lay there dying with her guts hanging out, the dog started to eat her. The irony amused me.
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Certainly, all animals, including humans, will die. Yet this fact doesn't mean we decide to eat every species of animal, including humans. Like you note, even you feel we shouldn't eat endangered animals. Why the hesitancy there? I assume it is because you value these animals' lives for some reason. So, you acknowledge animals' lives matter to you in some instances. If you increase the depth and breadth of that feeling, then my guess is you probably end up feeling similar to how I feel about animals. We don't differ so much, perhaps, in the type of feelings we have, but in how strong or broad they are.
You suggest that caring about humans should take priority over caring for other species. I would argue that people have enough time and money to care for both human and non-human animals, and often caring for non-human animals improves the lives of humans, and vice versa.
Yes, most non-human meat-eating animals won't hesitate to eat a human if able. Even humans don't hesitate to eat other humans under certain cultural, historical, and economic conditions. This doesn't mean we have to copy that behavior.
You ask a basic and important question: "Why do people worry so much about other species?" I worry because I care about what their experience of life is like. I want them to enjoy living life as long as they can and I don't want to interfere with their one chance to enjoy life.
Captain Awesome, if you happened to be a different species than I, our species classification wouldn't determine for me whether or not I should kill and eat you. What would matter to me is that you have the capacity to enjoy living and so I wouldn't want to end that for you. If you were an alien, for example, I wouldn't automatically eat you!
So, I am thinking that the issue here is not that you don't care about different *species,* but rather that you feel concern only about animals that have certain capabilities.
What do you do, though, when both human and non-human animals have these capabilities, and the differences aren't qualitative but quantitative?
For example, parrots are long-lived and can count and even talk; dogs respond to verbal commands; many animals have oxytocin and brains that appear to give them the feelings of love, based on analogy with humans. Many animals respond positively to anti-depressants that work on humans, suggesting they experience similar psychological troubles. What makes you draw a protective line around only humans, saying that only their experience of life and their feelings matter?