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Old 08-01-2013, 05:33 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Strawberry Bubblegum and Tunnel Vision are strong tracks.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:18 PM   #42 (permalink)
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My opinion is that both Frank Ocean and JT are stronger artists. They understand the music better; know when to let it breathe, have incredibly versatile vocal ranges and I know this may seem shallow given the technological advancements since the days of Inversions but the production is so much smoother, well rounded and layered.

There's no doubt MJ and Wonder were great 'singers' but as artists I find them to be rather one dimensional compared with JT and Frank who have better and more diverse ranges and aren't prone to the filler that Stevie and MJ put on some of their albums because they lacked the depth to keep up the standard throughout.

Besides just because an album is 20/30 years older than another, doesn't make it better. Hence the nostalgia comment I made.

What a crock of BULL**** lol


You must be smoking something to write this....


Aint no way in hell JT or Frank are better than MJ or Stevie Wonder, you crazy.


Stevie Wonder and Michael are stronger vocalists, have stronger material, were real artists, songwriters, arrangers, braoder lyrical subject matter and versatility in their music. They dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Stevie or MJ... this must be a joke


JT is a very mediocre singer and his lyrics are very generic and elementary. This album is descent but nothing original or innovative output of the sort. It would have been alot better if he used real instruments instead of computer generated sounds. Its the same old recyled Timbaland production that he has been doing since his been a solo artist. Not to mention, each of the songs has at least 4-8 songwriters that he doesnt even contribute.

Suit and Tie alone has 8 songwriters and JT is no where to be found.

If I wanted to listen to some real classic throwback R&B with stronger subject matter and production I would listen to D Angelo, Rashaan Paterson, etc Its amazing how people from the different persuasion can be called geniuses in the R&B realm when there are black R&B singers that have been making the same material and doing it better for years and NEVER get acknowledged.

But here this white blue eyed singer mimics shallow renditions of MJ, Stevie, Marvin, Prince etc and all of sudden its the greatest thing ever.

Its descent but its the same music he has been making since Justified and Ive heard more inspiring and creative R&B albums.

Last edited by Soulflower; 08-02-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:36 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Its the same old recyled Timbaland production that he has been doing since his been a solo artist.

Its descent but its the same music he has been making since Justified and Ive heard more inspiring and creative R&B albums.
I was with you up until you mentioned these two things. It's almost like you didn't even listen to the 20/20 Experience. If this is the same music that he's been making since Justified then people that were fans of Justified would be fans of this album and that's not the case at all whatsoever. Fans of Justified and LS/FS can't deal with the maturity that is on display with this album. Yes, I do agree that live instruments would have sounded somewhat better but get over it. This is the times that we are currently living in and the computer substitutes work just as good in the hands of the right person.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:12 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I was with you up until you mentioned these two things. It's almost like you didn't even listen to the 20/20 Experience. If this is the same music that he's been making since Justified then people that were fans of Justified would be fans of this album and that's not the case at all whatsoever. Fans of Justified and LS/FS can't deal with the maturity that is on display with this album. Yes, I do agree that live instruments would have sounded somewhat better but get over it. This is the times that we are currently living in and the computer substitutes work just as good in the hands of the right person.
I actually listened to the entire album and my favorite song on the album is Pusher Lover Girl.

I actually have heard the opposite. I have spoken to some hard core JT fans that say its a descent album but it sounds like his previous albums. You cant sit here and honestly argue that Mirrors does not sound like Cry Me a River part II. Timbaland used the same generic beat. Also, if your going to have songs longer than 4 minutes than it better be experimental because there is no point in having unnessary added minutes if there is nothing inspiring going on.

The media was hyping the album WAY to much. Its a descent album but its not innovative or original. Also, alot of the songs do sound like Justified cuts and LS/FS such as Mirrors, Strawberry Bubblegum, Suit and Tie etc. I think it is a descent album and I applaud JT for trying to be some what artistic unlike peers.

However

, its nothing groundbreaking and he is simply recycling alot of MJs, Stevie, Prince Marvin Gaye late 70s and early 80s output. (Which is baffling that the above poster would imply JT is better than them) ONCE, again he has been doing this since Justified. People say JT is creative but he is very one dimensional in my opinion because he is still stuck in this particular era. I liked to see him do some funky early 70s maybe or implement some rock but he is to caught up in trying to be like his influences instead of striving to be his own artist.

He is stuck into copying those artists sound (playing safe) in that particular era I mentioned above which is okay and all but I give the cross eye to those who think this album is creative.



Thats not a bad thing but its annoying when the media hypes it like its the greatest thing ever when there are other R&B singers that make much more lyrically complex songs with real instruments.

There are actually alot of artists now that use real instruments and even play instruments. You should check out my D Angelo thread in the soul/funk forum. He plays all his instruments and writes all his songs. He fuses alot of genres together in his music and his albums dont sound the same.

There are artists today that DO use real instruments in the R&B world that dont get credit. It seems today it is easier for a white male to be successful in the R&B world than black male singers which is unfornate because some of those black singers make far better R&B like Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell, D Angelo and are far stronger vocalist, artist etc.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:18 AM   #45 (permalink)
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However

, its nothing groundbreaking and he is simply recycling alot of MJs, Stevie, Prince Marvin Gaye late 70s and early 80s output. (Which is baffling that the above poster would imply JT is better than them) ONCE, again he has been doing this since Justified. People say JT is creative but he is very one dimensional in my opinion because he is still stuck in this particular era. I liked to see him do some funky early 70s maybe or implement some rock but he is to caught up in trying to be like his influences instead of striving to be his own artist.
Hahah I agree with you realtalk, I gotta say. I was massively disappointed that the album wasn't "fast forward" -- to me, it was 100% rewind. Not bad in and of itself, but I really struggled to feel like it was anything close to cutting edge. Which is what, in my opinion, a pop star of Justin's caliber should be aiming for.

In reference to the bolded bit of your quote, I'm sure Manky will argue with you to the death, so be prepared for an onslaught. His points will also probably be valid. So try to see where he's coming from.

As for me, I'm gonna stay right out of this...
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:26 AM   #46 (permalink)
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If this album had better bass lines/just more bass in general I would probably be giving it 5*.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I actually listened to the entire album and my favorite song on the album is Pusher Lover Girl.

I actually have heard the opposite. I have spoken to some hard core JT fans that say its a descent album but it sounds like his previous albums. You cant sit here and honestly argue that Mirrors does not sound like Cry Me a River part II. Timbaland used the same generic beat. Also, if your going to have songs longer than 4 minutes than it better be experimental because there is no point in having unnessary added minutes if there is nothing inspiring going on.

The media was hyping the album WAY to much. Its a descent album but its not innovative or original. Also, alot of the songs do sound like Justified cuts and LS/FS such as Mirrors, Strawberry Bubblegum, Suit and Tie etc. I think it is a descent album and I applaud JT for trying to be some what artistic unlike peers.
Wow we will have to agree to disagree but I don't hear that at all whatsoever. All of the songs on this album sound more mature and have a different sound to them. Most people that like Justified and FS/LS didn't end up liking this album because they felt there weren't enough dancey fast paced songs which he is bringing on the second part of the experience coming in Sept.

Okay, I just re-listened to Mirrors/Cry Me a River back to back and you have a point with that ONE song. Also, I love that the songs are longer. You can just groove to it longer and ride the beat. It doesn't have to have extra things being added in that space of time when you are creating a vibe to flow with.

The reason he's getting so much credit/hype is because the sound that he put out even though it's heavily influenced from greater artists. There are no current artists using this sound because they are too busy leaning heavily on electronica to mix with their R&B.

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However

, its nothing groundbreaking and he is simply recycling alot of MJs, Stevie, Prince Marvin Gaye late 70s and early 80s output. (Which is baffling that the above poster would imply JT is better than them) ONCE, again he has been doing this since Justified. People say JT is creative but he is very one dimensional in my opinion because he is still stuck in this particular era. I liked to see him do some funky early 70s maybe or implement some rock but he is to caught up in trying to be like his influences instead of striving to be his own artist.
I don't get why people always have an issue with artists using music that influences them in their work to bring it to a new generation/audience. Seriously, stop being stingy with your(not you specifically but people with your mindset usually much older folks) "greats" and let other artists introduce younger people to a sound that they may have not heard of. If the younger audience loves the sound and does some research they will come to find out where he borrowed it from and enjoy those "greats" as well.


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There are actually alot of artists now that use real instruments and even play instruments. You should check out my D Angelo thread in the soul/funk forum. He plays all his instruments and writes all his songs. He fuses alot of genres together in his music and his albums dont sound the same.

There are artists today that DO use real instruments in the R&B world that dont get credit. It seems today it is easier for a white male to be successful in the R&B world than black male singers which is unfornate because some of those black singers make far better R&B like Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell, D Angelo and are far stronger vocalist, artist etc.
I don't know why you are saying that those R&B artists aren't getting any credit. Maxwell and Anthony Hamilton have enjoyed their success when their albums have been released. D Angelo, not so much though. I feel like you are on D Angelo's street team lol. You tend to bring him up a lot. I admit I haven't given him a fair shot after he went buck ass naked in a video for attention.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:38 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Wow we will have to agree to disagree but I don't hear that at all whatsoever. All of the songs on this album sound more mature and have a different sound to them. Most people that like Justified and FS/LS didn't end up liking this album because they felt there weren't enough dancey fast paced songs which he is bringing on the second part of the experience coming in Sept.
Lyrically or production wise? I respectfully disagree. His subject matter is very elementary and generic. I have a hard time understanding how you would find the lyrics on the album mature. His subject matter is very formulaic and doesnt go broad into other mature topics. There are songs on this album that sound like FS/LS. FS/LS wasnt a commercial album either.

I guess we do have to agree to disagree because I dont think JT has shown any growth as an artist with this album. We will have to see for Part II if he truly as.

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Okay, I just re-listened to Mirrors/Cry Me a River back to back and you have a point with that ONE song. Also, I love that the songs are longer. You can just groove to it longer and ride the beat. It doesn't have to have extra things being added in that space of time when you are creating a vibe to flow with.
Let me start out by saying that I ADORE long songs. One of my favorite songs is 12 minutes long. I dont think it serves a purpose to run a song longer than what is necessary if there are no artistic things going on in those added minutes. It can be detrimental to the song if a song is made longer than what it should be. It just seems like he purposely ran certain songs longer so they could be long. I didnt hear any inspiring things going on in those extra added minutes.


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The reason he's getting so much credit/hype is because the sound that he put out even though it's heavily influenced from greater artists. There are no current artists using this sound because they are too busy leaning heavily on electronica to mix with their R&B.
Thats the thing, there ARE current artists that are artistic and that use REAL instruments in their music. There are some that get heavy R&B spins ALL the time on the R&B stations but the media isnt hyping them up, why do you think that is? Its one thing if he was doing something that NO ONE out now is doing but there ARE and alot that do it better and play real instruments.


Wow, I think the reason why the media hyped the album up is because he hasnt put out an album in 7 years and Justin is a media darling. Its also not bad to have a good marketing team behind you either.

The album is descent. Id give it 3.5 stars. I would have given it a 4 if real instruments were used and stronger lyrical content was there. They make it seem as though he is doing something that has never been done before when there are artists that make this kind of music ALL the time.

They also were comparing him to Sammy Davis Jr, MJ and Stevie Wonder which I think is a joke.


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I don't get why people always have an issue with artists using music that influences them in their work to bring it to a new generation/audience.
I agree.

I dont have a problem with this but I do have a problem with the media implying that this "sound" he is copying is innovative when he is basically copying 70s and 80s singing style and sound.


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Originally Posted by djchameleon View Post
Seriously, stop being stingy with your(not you specifically but people with your mindset usually much older folks) "greats" and let other artists introduce younger people to a sound that they may have not heard of. If the younger audience loves the sound and does some research they will come to find out where he borrowed it from and enjoy those "greats" as well.
I agree with all of this and dont have a problem with it. However, its also not good for younger audiences to assume what JT is doing is "orginal" when it is not. They are only assuming that based off what the media is marketing and adverstising. I think its good for young people to be exposed to both spectrums. I am fornuate enough to have been exposed to alot of those artists growing up because if I wasnt I probably would think the same thing.


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I don't know why you are saying that those R&B artists aren't getting any credit. Maxwell and Anthony Hamilton have enjoyed their success when their albums have been released. D Angelo, not so much though. I feel like you are on D Angelo's street team lol. You tend to bring him up a lot. I admit I haven't given him a fair shot after he went buck ass naked in a video for attention.
LOL. D Angelo is one of my favorite artists at the moment which is why I bring him up alot. He has an album coming out this fall that I am excited about. That man plays most of the instruments in his music, writes, arranges, produces the whole shabang himself. His music is heavily inspired by Prince and he incorporates alot of funk, soul, R&B etc *Fingers crossed* He hasnt made an album in 13 years. Hopefully the news is real that he is coming out with that album this fall. And you're right it was a bad move for him to go naked in that video. It really took the focus away from his talent and music. Another artist I love is Janelle Monae,ugh I love her so much lol I am going to make a thread on her soon here but not sure what forum to make it in because her music is so eclectic.

The reason why I say they are not getting any credit in comparision is because they make the same type of music JT does but they have stronger material, stronger vocals, stronger songwriters, use real instruments etc.

JT is backed by a million dollar label he has that advantaged over those other artists but that doesnt necessarily mean he is more talented or artistic despite what the media is marketing. Thats my only criticism.

Last edited by Soulflower; 08-03-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:16 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Lyrically or production wise? I respectfully disagree. His subject matter is very elementary and generic. I have a hard time understanding how you would find the lyrics on the album mature. His subject matter is very formulaic and doesnt go broad into other mature topics. There are songs on this album that sound like FS/LS. FS/LS wasnt a commercial album either.
I should have been more specific. The production has a more mature sound but yes the lyrics conflict with it. Sure, he didn't contribute to producing it himself but he's still associated with it because it is his album.



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Let me start out by saying that I ADORE long songs. One of my favorite songs is 12 minutes long. I dont think it serves a purpose to run a song longer than what is necessary if there are no artistic things going on in those added minutes. It can be detrimental to the song if a song is made longer than what it should be. It just seems like he purposely ran certain songs longer so they could be long. I didnt hear any inspiring things going on in those extra added minutes.
I disagree with you on this part. The last two to three mins of certain songs turned out to be my favorite parts of the songs.



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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Thats the thing, there ARE current artists that are artistic and that use REAL instruments in their music. There are some that get heavy R&B spins ALL the time on the R&B stations but the media isnt hyping them up, why do you think that is? Its one thing if he was doing something that NO ONE out now is doing but there ARE and alot that do it better and play real instruments.
It's not just because he's white if that's what you are thinking. He's getting the media hype because he's always had the media hype from back in his Nsync days and him breaking out as an actor. It's called branding. Oh I just got further down and you touch on part of that but yeah that's also another reason.

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Wow, I think the reason why the media hyped the album up is because he hasnt put out an album in 7 years and Justin is a media darling. Its also not bad to have a good marketing team behind you either.
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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
The album is descent. Id give it 3.5 stars. I would have given it a 4 if real instruments were used and stronger lyrical content was there. They make it seem as though he is doing something that has never been done before when there are artists that make this kind of music ALL the time.
When he performs the songs live in concert you get a better feel for the songs because he DOES use real instruments.
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They also were comparing him to Sammy Davis Jr, MJ and Stevie Wonder which I think is a joke.
Yeah, I think Manky does that just to rile people up but you'll have to ask/talk to him about that.



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I dont have a problem with this but I do have a problem with the media implying that this "sound" he is copying is innovative when he is basically copying 70s and 80s singing style and sound.
I'm pretty sure the reviews that I have read gave credit where credit was due and talked about how this sound was related to others that have come before.

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Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
I agree with all of this and dont have a problem with it. However, its also not good for younger audiences to assume what JT is doing is "orginal" when it is not. They are only assuming that based off what the media is marketing and adverstising. I think its good for young people to be exposed to both spectrums. I am fornuate enough to have been exposed to alot of those artists growing up because if I wasnt I probably would think the same thing.
If they are thinking/assuming it is his original sound when they go to do research they will be surprised and find out all these other artists that have similar music/sound that they are currently enjoying so it's a win/win.


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LOL. D Angelo is one of my favorite artists at the moment which is why I bring him up alot. He has an album coming out this fall that I am excited about. That man plays most of the instruments in his music, writes, arranges, produces the whole shabang himself. His music is heavily inspired by Prince and he incorporates alot of funk, soul, R&B etc *Fingers crossed* He hasnt made an album in 13 years. Hopefully the news is real that he is coming out with that album this fall. And you're right it was a bad move for him to go naked in that video. It really took the focus away from his talent and music. Another artist I love is Janelle Monae,ugh I love her so much lol I am going to make a thread on her soon here but not sure what forum to make it in because her music is so eclectic.
There might already be a Janelle Monae thread but put it in the section where all other R&B goes. I'm looking forward to her album coming out soon as well. I really like her.
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The reason why I say they are not getting any credit in comparision is because they make the same type of music JT does but they have stronger material, stronger vocals, stronger songwriters, use real instruments etc.
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JT is backed by a million dollar label he has that advantaged over those other artists but that doesnt necessarily mean he is more talented or artistic despite what the media is marketing. Thats my only criticism.
He has better branding like I mentioned earlier. It is part of the business to be able to brand yourself well.

Also we could use someone like yourself for this thread I created. http://www.musicbanter.com/rap-hip-h...lbum-swap.html

We pretty much focus on one album for a certain amount of time. Maybe a week sometimes shorter then write a little mini-review of our thoughts on it. Some of them you may have heard before but it's nice to go back and listen to some great R&B albums you haven't heard in awhile. Also, I will let you pick the next album after our current one.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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