Should People Posting Nothing But Youtube Videos Be Treated As Spammers ?
 

It's your forum, you decide what goes down here.
This poll is for mod feedback purposes only.

If people feel strongly about it one way or another we may act on it.

We're talking about people who continually post youtube videos with no explanation or any other content to the post.

Should we allow it or not?

Should it be treated as spam?

Tell us.

If there's no explanation or any other content to the post, and that's all they ever do when they post here, Then it seems like a form of spam to me.

I think there should be at least be a daily limit on how many youtube videos should be allowed by any one member.

Say a limit of three ?

To be honest, most people never even play/watch the videos posted anyway. Especially if they are mainstream and popular songs that everybody has already heard before that they are already familiar with. I understand adding a video to help reinforce an ongoing debate and so on.

After all, this is a music discussion forum. And if you don't want to discuss music, then go to the Lounge forums or shout box.

That's my (brief) opinion on the subject anyway.

Posting youtube videos with no explanation or any other content to the post should be allowed.

Some people aren't talkers or can't easily express their feelings about music in words, and so they share with others in the community by sharing the music itself.

I rarely find myself without something to say ;) ... but I don't want moderators to fault those members whose gab gift is less gifty or who choose, for whatever reason, to post just the music without commentary.

What is with this democratic horseshit?

Everything should use moderator's discretion, there's just simply no way you could enforce it black and white.

Why the hell should it be treated as spam? Youtube threads and What Are You Currently Listening To threads are just spam threads anyway. I don't get why anyone would care, they're not selling anything or posting random Youtube videos in inappropriate threads. **** it!

There isn't a rule on this so how can we enforce a rule that doesn't exist?
The point of this thread is to see if members think it's a big enough problem to make a ruling on.

And most of the rules here are there because members wanted them so this democratic horseshit isn't really anything new.

We're not talking about those threads, that's why they're in the games, list, polls & jokes forum & not any of the music forums.
This is about people who continually do it in the music forums.

I'd say: It depends.

In one hand, I don't see a problem with people posting youtube music vids only in threads that lend itself to that sort of thing, or if the person is a contributing member. But in the other, if there's a user that does nothing but post youtube vids (I.E. Lovesong) in every thread they post in, adding no meaningful content, then yea... that's spam.

Agree. If you are posting a single vid and not posting even a sentence about why you are posting it then that just makes me skip that post even if I might miss out on something really good.

That's the same mentality I have, I'll put the same amount of effort into viewing your post as you put into making it, fuck all.

this is MusicBanter, and while I do think the good outweighs the band on this forum, there's nowhere near as much banter going on as there was when I joined two years ago.

So yeah... if all you do is post Youtube videos with nothing to say about them, go swallow the cleaning products under your sink.

Well, I recently posted a video of a new Mastodon song in the Mastodon thread, and all I said was ":/". I think that post is pretty self-explanatory and generates discussion.

Otherwise, yes, treat it like spam.

^ ^ ^ http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/r...e_999/rofl.gif


Demonstrate how that's done, please.


No, those threads are in the music forums:

Music Banter > The Music Forums > General Music
Favourite Music Videos Favourite Music Videos


Music Banter > The Music Forums > General Music
What Are You Listening To Right Now? II

And if you look at that thread you'll see that a large majority of people chose to say why they like it as well as posting the video, which is what we want in the music forum so I'm not sure why you're telling me this.


From the first post in that thread...

If anything by showing those two threads you're just highlighting the problem that some members have expressed.
So thanks for that.

Love-song also adds lyrics, selects appropriate threads for the songs she posts, and publicly replied to me when I commented on one of her love songs.

If you feel hurt that someone is mostly just posting videos, if it makes you feel that the person isn't being friendly or open, then I recommend you tell the person by PM rather than decide her posts are "Spam" and talk about her behind her back in a thread like this one. Have you ever tried to converse with her, Freebase?

I doubt Love-song will be inspired to communicate more of her thoughts to people at MusicBanter when a moderator down here in the Lounge is referring to her 400 posts as Spam and ignoring that she does more than just post youtube vids. I feel it is cool that she enjoys and is able to find so many songs about love. Kinda inspiring. I also feel that her videos show her feelings and interests without needing words to explain them.

Ah. As long as we post a video with " :/ " we will be "safe." :laughing:

Perhaps we can all just use emoticons after we post videos, then MB will be "spam"-free! ;)

I noticed that, too.

I really like the "What Are You Listening To Right Now II" thread because you can quickly hear the variety of songs to which members are listening. This gives you a feel for the breadth of their musical tastes and may introduce you to new music.

I thought one accepted reason to come to MB was to find new music and learn about other people's musical interests. If a member posts only or primarily youtube videos without commentary, those purposes are served.

If MB were going to say that posting youtube videos by themselves will be considered spamming, then threads shouldn't be created that invite members to do so:

Neither of the ones mentioned so far were.

And I know get you off on being the voice of the oppressed so I can assure you this thread is nothing more than gauging forum opinion on something that some people feel is an increasing problem and a discussion about it.

There are some people here who think that holding some kind of standards here and not allowing some of the rubbish that plagues other forums is the way this forum should be, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Then I'll spell it out for you: Batlord asked you what was wrong with simply posting videos in 'Youtube threads and What Are You Currently Listening To threads'. You replied that those threads don't matter because they aren't in the Music Forums. I'm telling you this because your statement to Batlord is incorrect. Am I clear enough now?

Exactly right.

and i'll spell it out to you

The reason those threads you highlighted are in the music forum is was because they were intended to have DISCUSSION in them, and the fact that some people are just going in there and just posting videos is what people are getting annoyed about.

Clear now?

Here's What I'm Listening to Right Now II.
I think it's a super-cool song that everybody should hear. Discuss.

My point is that when I read Jackhammer's OP for the "What Are You Listening To Right Now II" thread in the music forum, I interpret it as saying that people need to post a video, but adding a few lines about the video is preferred yet not REQUIRED, because he uses the word "maybe" and follows that up with a "?" to show this is a suggestion, not a requirement:

You shouldn't fault people for following directions. If you want people to do something, you have to be clear in the original post.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing standards, either. I just don't see posting youtube videos as "rubbish."

And yes, it does bother me when moderators fault people for doing something (posting youtube videos without commentary) when those people are just following directions. Calling their posts "rubbish" is pretty harsh.

I prefer people to share their views about music videos by writing about them, because I like to hear their thoughts. I just don't feel there needs to be an across-the-board rule that they *have* to. I'd rather that we lead by example, rather than force people to spew up words (or a :/ ) after posting a video.

If you want to make it one of the official rules that people may never post a video by itself, then I am not opposed to that, as long as the rule is stated in the official site rules. However, I think it will be incredibly difficult to police, because people will just start complying by saying, "I like this video." That would count as commentary, wouldn't it?

So if someone posts inappropriately, don't mods already have the option of making a red-letter comment?

I always include a couple of lines of explaination when posting a video, I feel it makes posting the video more worthwhile. I'm for Youtube videos on MB as it's a good way to discover music but I'd be more inclined to watch a video if someone included a couple of lines about it, such as why they like the particular song, otherwise I usually don't bother.

A similar problem that annoys me is when people only post album covers without any real explaination whatsoever in the Last Album You Bought or Downloaded and Albums You're Digging threads. It's just laziness. People are always interested in what other people have to say about albums so it would really make it more worthwhile if people actually said something about them.

Firstly that thread was started before this became an issue so unless you expect someone to look into the future I don't see how he can word it to take something into account several years later.
Secondly no matter how he worded it he still intended there to be some discussion in that thread and that is the reason it's in the forum it's in.
You can disagree with it if you like but it's staying where it is.
And I've not been deleting any posts in there with no content other than youtube videos in them because they're not currently breaking any rules as things are now.
The point of this thread is to see if people want one.

If they do those threads will be modified accordingly just like it was when the first one was closed, that's why it's called the "What Are You Listening To Right Now II" thread.



A growing number of people do.
Hence us having this discussion now

Well that's you and you've expressed how you feel and that will be taken into account like everybody else's opinion.

I believe in the original post I said posts with no content, not no words.
They would be treated the same way.

If someone posts inappropriately the post gets deleted.
The point of this thread is to see if members think that these kind of posts are inappropriate for the forum.

I'm not hurt about it. I'm just explaining my position and used her well-known activities as a reference.
Anyway, we contacted her about it previously, and she simply stopped doing it in the one thread, and moved it to others. All we asked is that she put some banter and effort into it, like we ask of any person on these forums posting about music.

In my opinion, it's less about the action of a single person posting a vid with no personal input behind it, and more about the quality of the forum, as a whole, in regard to what we all deem acceptable.

I'm not going to go around and delete posts in the music sections that have just Youtube videos in them. But I do support the idea that we have a basic level of expectation when it comes to posts about music. If there's a thread expressing no need to do anything else but post Youtube videos/music videos, that's fine with me.
But I certainly don't think that should be a standard applied in every thread.

Jackhammer could edit his Original Post to say that each post about a video must include the person's opinions about the song and why they have them. He would also need to note the date of the change, so that posters would know that it applies to them.

Then you could start deleting any posts that lack substantive commentary right away without any need for a general MB rule change.

I'm fine with that "What Are You Listening To Now" thread being in the music forum. I just don't want members to be faulted when they haven't broken any rules. I'm glad you haven't been deleting people's video posts.

I feel that if a thread-starter doesn't want just videos, she or he should explain that. Then there doesn't have to be any general MusicBanter rule against posts containing only a video. Sometimes a thread-starter really just WANTS to hear the music that people post in the thread, and listening to the music is the main objective of the thread.

Well, that's nice that you contacted her. Thanks for explaining more about the situation with Love-song. I do agree that unless there is a general rule about adding commentary, deleting any of her posts would be inappropriate.

I agree with what you say in bold.

Let the mods decide between them. They're the ones entrusted with making these kind of decisions, not the members.
It's one of the responsibilities of being a mod.
Asking the members in threads like this only serves for long winded debate like the one above.
What's the point in kicking the arse out of a simple problem?
It'll just take 5 times longer to come to the same decision anyway.

The point is that if mods decide they won't allow people to just post music videos, but lots of members like being able to post music videos without commentary, then the mods will have pissed off a bunch of members.

That's why Urban asked the question and made a poll: to see what people feel. I feel it is great that he asked the question.

The discussion in the end won't matter; only the poll will, I assume. However, discussion can give people reasons that they may not have thought of before to vote one way or the other.

Also, a thread with more posts gets more views, so a long-winded discussion like this may cause more people to visit the thread and vote in the poll! Then we'll get a better feeling for people's opinions, and the mods will be able to make a better-informed decision.

All my long-winded debating is just for the good of the site, right-track. Didn't you know that? ;)

No they aren't. They just bog everything down for ages and make ordinary decisions a bit of a drama.
In the end, some members who don't get their own way feel slightly aggrieved after post replying their opinions, when I really don't think they would have given a toss over something like this had the decision been made for them.
We have 12 mods out of a number of between 50 and 60 regular members.
I'm sure that between them they can come up with a sensible and representative decision.

How can it be a representative decision if the mods don't actually consult with the members they "represent?"

You know, right-track, when we fight it just makes more drama. If you really didn't want drama, you would just agree with me.

God help this site if ever you become a mod.
Nothing would ever get done!

It's literally no different from a user whose posts contain only pictures, especially because we know nearly nobody actually watches the videos posted.

EniYeah but you don't know that. You are just basing it off of what you and a few vocal members gripe about.

I love the What you are listening to thread, I take some time out to go through them in the hopes of finding something I may like that I would have never looked up.

How do you know that?

I don't think anyone here wants to lose his or her's right to post youtube videos. Its all being a little over exaggerated in my opinion.

We're talking about simple limitations and certain rules that should be followed and applied within any community, in order for it to function 100%.

Ive been corrected here at MB at least twice by Moderators through the years for posting too many music videos. And I took that as being constructive criticism instead of being persistent or offended by it.

Its not really that big of a deal if you just use common sense. :D

I watch the videos people post, and I'm sure others do too, they can be a great way of stumbling upon new music.

A video can sometimes express something the poster cannot articulate in words, they can be great for succinctly getting a message across. I'm all for video posts if they serve a purpose, and if the member posting said video is a frequent, constructive contributor.

Yes, but who are new mods chosen by? Old mods. If we want mods to make decisions like this (and entrust them with it, in the process, as you said) maybe it ought to be up to the members to decide who the new mods are that they can trust. Otherwise the members really never are a part of the forums decision-making. They are the ones, after all, that make the forum what it is.

Also, as the poll results show, the mods and members are clearly at odds on this matter. So obviously the mods aren't representing the members of MB very well with this.

For the same reasons as stated above.


I think the results so far are due to a general misunderstanding by some.
The thread isn't a call for all vids posted without an additional comment, but for the ones posted by some who can't be bothered to comment at all.
I think that point has already been covered earlier.
I don't think some members have voted with that point in consideration.

Just to point out...it's a little unfair of me to complain about threads like this, in this particular thread.
If I know Urban, I'm sure he'll agree with most of what I've said. At least in principle.
And I'm sure he's got his reasons for creating this thread in the first place.

Btw...I don't think they should be treated as spam. More that they should be treated as being, fucking bone idle!

This thread was started due to members wanting the issue discussed not the mods. We're simply consulting the membership.
Mods can express personal opinions on it but so far no mods have made a collective decision about it so I don't really see how you can say the members and the mods are at odds when no decision has been made.

No decision has been made but the preferences on the matter show that mods and members want something different. Unless, as r-t suggested,they're misunderstanding the concept of this new idea.

But if the mods had acted on it without taking into account member's opinions, as r-t wanted, then they would in fact be at odds with the members.

My post was in response to r-t's suggested situation, not reality. :)