We've got a major problem...

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 06:45 PM

Tougher moderation is fine but people only want it when it applies to others and not them.

djchameleon · 08-07-2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Tougher moderation is fine but people only want it when it applies to others and not them.

Understandable but the Current Events area does warrant it though.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-07-2013, 06:49 PM

If it was up to me personally I would delete posts in there the moment that people start to criticise the person rather than addressing the topic in hand, and that's any post with any sort of criticism regardless of how much the topic has been discussed in it.
And that means any type of criticism, not just insults.

If people want that I'll do it.

djchameleon · 08-07-2013, 06:52 PM

that's actually a good idea for the Current Events section because that area can get out of hand pretty quickly.

It also makes sense to challenge the person's idea instead of the person.

Maybe update that read first thread letting people know that the area will be heavily moderated and that's what will happen in that area.

Stephen · 08-07-2013, 06:53 PM

I tend to log on, click New Posts, scan the list, roll my eyes when I see who made the last post and don't bother checking probably 90% of the threads.

Top of the list is usually 15 threads bumped by the latest spammer. Then there are the threads that have been derailed by several pages of bickering which you can usually identify by the last poster. If I have posted to any threads recently I will check to see how things have progressed usually to find my comments ignored and the thread has gone a different direction.

I guess musically I am often focussed on a particular artist or genre so I will come in through Google and read through back-threads. If a particular poster catches my interest I will search their threads to learn a bit more about them and follow any recommendations. If I find an interesting but neglected thread I will try and bump it but usually don't feel like I have much to contribute as far as reviving any interest in the thread.

Musically I seem to be on the outer around here. There only seem to be a handful of posters that share my interests genre wise.

I guess what I'm saying in a long winded way is that this site is still a good resource as far as researching music but if we can all agree to keep our egos and sniping to a minimum I think it would be a lot better.

The music journals are a fairly vibrant section of late and I think thanks should go to Trollheart for creating a bit more interest in that area. The writing is generally more focussed so still some good stuff to be had. Lounge and shout box play their roles too as far as getting to know people and building a community.

Blarobbarg · 08-07-2013, 06:55 PM

I really don't know what has to be done to clean up the forum. It has devolved into an angry, tribal society where if you're not part of their little tribe then you won't be accepted. As the majority of those before me have stated, the politics section is what really fans the flames. I'm not so sure that more policing will fix the problem, but it's worth a shot. I don't want to turn MB into a police state where open discussion is impossible, but at this point, I'm willing to try anything. Urban, I'm for deleting posts that criticize others during the Lounge discussions. Do what you need to do.

sopsych · 08-07-2013, 06:56 PM

I'm waiting for tore to state whether he wants to be moderator #1 again. If he's willing to start another site.... Probably nobody could tell me he would make Music Banter worse, even with that weird "too idealistic" claim that I've seen applied to someone else.

Voting on mods - allow a window for nominations/demotions at the beginning of each month and if, for example, 5 people agree about someone, start a poll that runs for at least a week and requires enough votes that cliques couldn't do much damage. The thing is, The current system is the ultimate clique, friends choosing friends to work with them. And I'm not going to make (good) threads until that changes.

Deletion drama? Be very specific in posted guidelines about what will get posts deleted (for example, name-calling). But understand that if mods are actively part of that drama, deletions will be seen as unfair (mods above the law) and if moderators refrain from fighting, they'll be 'punished' less with complaints about deletions.

Lastly, I too have witnessed problems in forums that have a Politics section. I don't pay much attention to The Lounge (because I'm here for music), but if drama is starting there, then limit posting privileges in it (for example, not allowing new members to make threads there) and urge everyone to self-limit their time in that section.

djchameleon · 08-07-2013, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blarobbarg

I don't want to turn MB into a police state where open discussion is impossible, but at this point, I'm willing to try anything.

Yeah but you aren't having an open discussion when you are attacking someone or their beliefs. You should be talking about the topic at hand and yes I know I'm guilty of doing exactly what I'm talking about but I will refrain from doing so in the future.

Arya Stark · 08-07-2013, 07:05 PM

I agree with Lisnaholic when he said to encourage more music posts.
That's the key here.
Not censoring everyone.

And they may acually begin with being more open-minded. Allowing the musical opinions of others, allowing arguments but not being offensive, and more.

I really think this can work.

I think every week or every first week of the month or something, each mod (at least) should make a thread that starts a discussion about MUSIC.
And that contributing members should try this as well. And try to post more in the music threads and such.
People respect and love the mods, and you guys would probably get a lot of activity in your threads on music.

Trollheart · 08-07-2013, 07:12 PM

I think DJ's last post is probably one of the most honest and actually bravest in this thread, and I think we should all --- me included goes without saying --- undertake to follow his example. We've all --- all --- been guilty of contributing to or in some cases starting, maybe maintaining the fires and I think now is a good time for us all to throw down the gasoline cans and try to join the fire brigade. If we all recognise that, rather than blame others --- or "everyone but me" --- on these incidents, and accept that we all have had a role to play in every situation --- unless we actually weren't involved in the discussion at all --- this could have been something as simple or esoteric as calming someone down rather than bait them, be the voice of reason --- (yes there are a lot of triple hyphens in this sentence, aren't there?) we can all do our bit to help, then perhaps, just perhaps, we can turn this thing around.

Remember, although there's no smoke without fire, fire can't exist in a vacuum and if we provide that vacuum by refusing to be drawn into petty arguments --- a drama vacuum, if you like (yeah I'm aware I just used another triple hyphen!) then maybe the drama, like a fire without oxygen, might just gutter and go out.

08-07-2013, 06:45 PM	#61 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Tougher moderation is fine but people only want it when it applies to others and not them. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-07-2013, 06:49 PM	#63 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	If it was up to me personally I would delete posts in there the moment that people start to criticise the person rather than addressing the topic in hand, and that's any post with any sort of criticism regardless of how much the topic has been discussed in it. And that means any type of criticism, not just insults. If people want that I'll do it. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-07-2013, 06:55 PM	#66 (permalink)
Blarobbarg Do good. Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 2,065	I really don't know what has to be done to clean up the forum. It has devolved into an angry, tribal society where if you're not part of their little tribe then you won't be accepted. As the majority of those before me have stated, the politics section is what really fans the flames. I'm not so sure that more policing will fix the problem, but it's worth a shot. I don't want to turn MB into a police state where open discussion is impossible, but at this point, I'm willing to try anything. Urban, I'm for deleting posts that criticize others during the Lounge discussions. Do what you need to do. __________________ https://rateyourmusic.com/~Blarobbarg ｡･::･ﾟ★,｡･::･ﾟ☆　^my RYM^　｡･::･ﾟ★,｡･::･ﾟ☆ (◠‿◠✿)

08-07-2013, 06:56 PM	#67 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I'm waiting for tore to state whether he wants to be moderator #1 again. If he's willing to start another site.... Probably nobody could tell me he would make Music Banter worse, even with that weird "too idealistic" claim that I've seen applied to someone else. Voting on mods - allow a window for nominations/demotions at the beginning of each month and if, for example, 5 people agree about someone, start a poll that runs for at least a week and requires enough votes that cliques couldn't do much damage. The thing is, The current system is the ultimate clique, friends choosing friends to work with them. And I'm not going to make (good) threads until that changes. Deletion drama? Be very specific in posted guidelines about what will get posts deleted (for example, name-calling). But understand that if mods are actively part of that drama, deletions will be seen as unfair (mods above the law) and if moderators refrain from fighting, they'll be 'punished' less with complaints about deletions. Lastly, I too have witnessed problems in forums that have a Politics section. I don't pay much attention to The Lounge (because I'm here for music), but if drama is starting there, then limit posting privileges in it (for example, not allowing new members to make threads there) and urge everyone to self-limit their time in that section. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

08-07-2013, 07:12 PM	#70 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	I think DJ's last post is probably one of the most honest and actually bravest in this thread, and I think we should all --- me included goes without saying --- undertake to follow his example. We've all --- all --- been guilty of contributing to or in some cases starting, maybe maintaining the fires and I think now is a good time for us all to throw down the gasoline cans and try to join the fire brigade. If we all recognise that, rather than blame others --- or "everyone but me" --- on these incidents, and accept that we all have had a role to play in every situation --- unless we actually weren't involved in the discussion at all --- this could have been something as simple or esoteric as calming someone down rather than bait them, be the voice of reason --- (yes there are a lot of triple hyphens in this sentence, aren't there?) we can all do our bit to help, then perhaps, just perhaps, we can turn this thing around. Remember, although there's no smoke without fire, fire can't exist in a vacuum and if we provide that vacuum by refusing to be drawn into petty arguments --- a drama vacuum, if you like (yeah I'm aware I just used another triple hyphen!) then maybe the drama, like a fire without oxygen, might just gutter and go out. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-07-2013, 06:53 PM	#65 (permalink)
Stephen I sleep in your hat Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Melbourne, Vic. Aus. Posts: 1,846	I tend to log on, click New Posts, scan the list, roll my eyes when I see who made the last post and don't bother checking probably 90% of the threads. Top of the list is usually 15 threads bumped by the latest spammer. Then there are the threads that have been derailed by several pages of bickering which you can usually identify by the last poster. If I have posted to any threads recently I will check to see how things have progressed usually to find my comments ignored and the thread has gone a different direction. I guess musically I am often focussed on a particular artist or genre so I will come in through Google and read through back-threads. If a particular poster catches my interest I will search their threads to learn a bit more about them and follow any recommendations. If I find an interesting but neglected thread I will try and bump it but usually don't feel like I have much to contribute as far as reviving any interest in the thread. Musically I seem to be on the outer around here. There only seem to be a handful of posters that share my interests genre wise. I guess what I'm saying in a long winded way is that this site is still a good resource as far as researching music but if we can all agree to keep our egos and sniping to a minimum I think it would be a lot better. The music journals are a fairly vibrant section of late and I think thanks should go to Trollheart for creating a bit more interest in that area. The writing is generally more focussed so still some good stuff to be had. Lounge and shout box play their roles too as far as getting to know people and building a community.